The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: tt11758 on October 27, 2009, 10:19:03 AM
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http://www.pjtv.com/video/AlfonZo_Rachel_Presents%3A_ZoNation/Conservatives_Don%27t_Need_A_Leader/2621/ (http://www.pjtv.com/video/AlfonZo_Rachel_Presents%3A_ZoNation/Conservatives_Don%27t_Need_A_Leader/2621/)
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Not on an individual basis, but as a movement we need, if not a leader per se at least spokespeople who can coherently espouse our ideology in terms the sheep can understand and serve as a rallying point for organizational purposes.
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Not on an individual basis, but as a movement we need, if not a leader per se at least spokespeople who can coherently espouse our ideology in terms the sheep can understand and serve as a rallying point for organizational purposes.
The sheep don't WANT to understand, they want to be taken care of. What we need is some actual honest-to-God conservative people running for office. John McCain didn't lose the Presidential race because he was too conservative, he lost it because he wasn't conservative ENOUGH!!!
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We don't need a "Leader". We need a "Commander".
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First thing a "Commander" would do, let alone a REAL Leader of the Conservative party is FIRE ALL THE MODERATE RINO's.
Tell them to take a train, long walk off a short pier, piss off, go home, take off, just "F'en" leave.
The McCain's, Snowe's, Graham's, and a host of others can also get a big NO VOTE in 2010.
Vote ALL the bums out.
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First thing a "Commander" would do, let alone a REAL Leader of the Conservative party is FIRE ALL THE MODERATE RINO's.
Tell them to take a train, long walk off a short pier, piss off, go home, take off, just "F'en" leave.
The McCain's, Snowe's, Graham's, and a host of others can also get a big NO VOTE in 2010.
Vote ALL the bums out.
Isn't that the job Steele was supposed to do?
Read something earlier today that said fewer and fewer people are identifying themselves as Republicans, but the ranks of conservatives are growing. Like the Hoffman / Scarafozza (sp?) race in NY - Palin started it, now even RINO Pawlenty has come out for Hoffman.
But that is a good reminder - no matter how pretty, how photogenic, how "Me too" people like Romney and Pawlenty and others may be - it has to be about what they stand for, not what they say they stand for - today. We need to devastate - utterly destroy - RINOs at the polls and promote Constitutionalists.
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This is the first bad comment I've heard about Pawlenty.
When they picked the new head of the Republican party they had 4 candidates.
They picked the only one who owned no guns.
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This is the first bad comment I've heard about Pawlenty.
When they picked the new head of the Republican party they had 4 candidates.
They picked the only one who owned no guns.
Take it from a Minnesotan, Pawlenty is a moderate but perhaps a little more conservative that the usual RINO. Pawlenty is not as conservative as Michele Bachmann from the MN 6th District. You may recall that Pawlenty was nearly Mccain's VP. Remember, in Minnesota RINO's look conservative.
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You guys crack me up. The GOP got its ass handed to it twice, because it wasn't conservative enough? Thats like the Dems saying that BOs popularity is declining because he's not liberal enough. No gays in the military, no serious gun control, we still haven't ratified Kyoto or shut down GITMO, thats the problem ::). Here's a clue, most Americans aren't conservative or liberal, they're moderates, leaning slightly right. They are Blue Dog Dems or RINOs (same difference really). The Dems tried for ideological purity in the late Sixties and got it with McGovern. They only now recovered thanks to W. and the DLC. If the GOP purges the RINOs (that heinous beast), where do you think their supporters will go? Y'all go ahead and have your purges, get out the long knives and achieve ideological purity. I'll bring the popcorn.
FQ13
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So whats your point FQ ? The stupid people are right ? Wasn't it George Mason who said the Majority is an ass ?
What do YOU suggest ? Government by incompetents ? we've been doing that and it doesn't work.
Smartest comment you made was to carry out a purge. But not of the Party, of the Country.Any one who wants to have socialism can, in Cuba, or China. Not here.
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So whats your point FQ ? The stupid people are right ? Wasn't it George Mason who said the Majority is an ass ?
What do YOU suggest ? Government by incompetents ? we've been doing that and it doesn't work.
Smartest comment you made was to carry out a purge. But not of the Party, of the Country.Any one who wants to have socialism can, in Cuba, or China. Not here.
If getting the smart people to support you was enough, we'd have a Libertarian in the White House. ;D The key is you've got to get to 51%. If we had a parlimentary system, or even fusion, a conservative party would work. As it is, you need most of your base and a majority of the moderates. This means that you guys and the folks and the Huffington Post will be forever dissapointed. Purity is great, but it won't win general elections. Case in point Olympia Snowe. Suppose a hard core conservative beats her in the primary. What are his odds of beating a centerist Dem in the general? Or Charlie Crist here in Fl. If e were nominated, he would win the Senate seat in a walk. As it is, he's probably going to either lose or be so badly beaten up in the priary that a Dem might win.The rules of the game dictate against a "pure" party winning anything outside of Utah or Vermont.
FQ13
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No what we need is that purge you suggested, then NO VOTE for welfare recipients and illegal aliens. The biggest advantage the socialists have is the propaganda from the leftist media and fools like you. I have no respect for libertarians after what I've seen up here with the Free State Project.
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No what we need is that purge you suggested, then NO VOTE for welfare recipients and illegal aliens. The biggest advantage the socialists have is the propaganda from the leftist media and fools like you. I have no respect for libertarians after what I've seen up here with the Free State Project.
No argument with most of that. If you're on the dole, no vote. The LP is a complete joke, but largely because its made itself irrelevant by seeking ideological purity (Randians vs Friedmanites vs anarcho-capitalists, as though anyone cared). ::) I like the platform, hate the party, but thats still more than I can say about the Dems or GOP. Still, unless you can attract the middle or push for a fusion system in each state, you're screwed as a "pure" conservative party. As far as the Media, FOX is number one among cable news networks and the right dominates talk radio.
FQ13
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This is the first bad comment I've heard about Pawlenty.
When they picked the new head of the Republican party they had 4 candidates.
They picked the only one who owned no guns.
As a MN neighbor, what I see is Pawlenty is more of a willow than anything else - moving with prevailing winds. He may be rooted in some measure of centrist-conservative values, but he seems to follow FQ's warped faux "libertarian" approach and try to compromise those values to accomplish - something. And he seems to have his ass handed to him for doing so.
Just a view from across the Red River.
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No argument with most of that. If you're on the dole, no vote. The LP is a complete joke, but largely because its made itself irrelevant by seeking ideological purity (Randians vs Friedmanites vs anarcho-capitalists, as though anyone cared). ::) I like the platform, hate the party, but thats still more than I can say about the Dems or GOP. Still, unless you can attract the middle or push for a fusion system in each state, you're screwed as a "pure" conservative party. As far as the Media, FOX is number one among cable news networks and the right dominates talk radio.
FQ13
The only idealogical purity that the LP seeks is that we return to the founding principles of the country. i.e. limited government. That means that government hold personal property as sacred, and does NOT see our money as theirs first. I know that this will be a bitter pill for you FQ, but if you look around and watch the polls, what you will find is that a majority of Americans (the ones who truly have a right to be upset) agree with these ideals.
Have you stopped to consider that this is the reason for the dominance of conservative talk radio and Fox news? Because they actually support these principles. People identify with this. Or it could be because they are the only media actually reporting the truth.
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Pathfinder and WatchmanUSA, I had not heard these things about Pawlenty and I thank you for making me aware of them.
The same things can be said about Romney, He may have done well managing the Salt lake olympics but as Gov. of Ma he was a RINO. He was the one who signed their PERMANENT AWB.
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FQ, You should bear in mind that 3% of the population MADE this country, By the end of the first Revolution there were more Americans serving the King than serving the Rebellion. But we overcame that to build the greatest nation in the history of the world.
Something else to keep in mind, the Militia was a GOVERNMENT organization. It's composition and training was established by British law, while members may have been required to supply their own weapons, expendables such as powder, lead, rations, and uniforms were supplied by the Crown. In the decade preceding the rebellion it was taken over by more radical elements who voted in Officers more loyal to their community than the Crown so when conflict erupted the militia was solidly on the side of the local Patriot leaders in opposition to the forces sent from overseas.
The same tactics have been used by the Communist and socialist elitists to seize control of the Democratic party, while the Republicans have allowed themselves to be swayed by "moderate" dem lite RINO's like McCain and Steele.
It is well with in the abilities of Conservatives to do the same thing. It really doesn't even matter which party we take over, although the traditional Republican platform is more in keeping with our beliefs. Once control of the party LEADERSHIP has been acquired discipline can be maintained through campaign funding. Those who, Like Snowe and Collins, in Me, don't follow the parties principles,see challengers getting funding from with in their own party while they get none.
The "Libertarian Party is a waste of votes, money and other resources as they re to fragmented and are perceived by to many people as only being interested in promoting dope smoking and Gay rights. Any one who votes for them is throwing away their vote as a ineffectual protest ignored by all.
The reason Conservatives dominate talk radio is because liberal/leftist talk shows have minumal listers so sponsors don't waste their money there.
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Tom - I think many of us outside the NE are well aware of Romney's RINO-itis. ;D
BTTT - Realistically, I do think we do need some form of a leader. There is a huge feeling of disengagement from the process, as it sinks in to people that they flat-out do not matter, that the kongress kritters will do as they please regardless of how others feel or see it. Watch for the end of 2010 - if ACORN helps steal elections (they are still around folks, and Soros et al. will undoubtedly make up for any lost gummint funding) to keep the statists in power, then IMHO all hell will break loose. Even worse if the economy starts tanking again. Hey, the election will be over, and 2 long years to bho having to stand again - if he even wants to, he may be done with his tasks by then.
It would be nice to have a figurehead to galvanize that reaction, that anger and hostility and find ways to put it to good use.
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Path, I have tossed a couple of smartassed comments into this thread but in fact I agree with you. While a multiprong approach is effective the members of the Conservative movement tend to run around like headless chickens. While a bottom up grassroots movement is a great method of mobilizing the population, it can never hope to attain it's goals until it has a Figure head to rally behind, and a Leader, or steering committee to decide THIS is important NOW, that we can address at a later date, and the other thing needs to have some sort of compromise worked out .
It was not the Minute Men who made our first Revolution, They merely sparked the fighting in defense of the ideas and principles being hammered out by the Committees of Correspondence, and it was the Committee members who established the Continental Congress that declared Independence, and prosecuted the war of liberation.
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You guys crack me up. The GOP got its ass handed to it twice, because it wasn't conservative enough? Thats like the Dems saying that BOs popularity is declining because he's not liberal enough. No gays in the military, no serious gun control, we still haven't ratified Kyoto or shut down GITMO, thats the problem ::). Here's a clue, most Americans aren't conservative or liberal, they're moderates, leaning slightly right. They are Blue Dog Dems or RINOs (same difference really). The Dems tried for ideological purity in the late Sixties and got it with McGovern. They only now recovered thanks to W. and the DLC. If the GOP purges the RINOs (that heinous beast), where do you think their supporters will go? Y'all go ahead and have your purges, get out the long knives and achieve ideological purity. I'll bring the popcorn.
FQ13
Ok, smartass, explain two things to me, in light of your comments.
1) If the country is moderate with a slight lean to the right, why the hell did they (you) elect a Marxist/Socialist as President?
2) Kindly explain the two Reagan landslide victories.
I realize that I'm not an all-knowing member of the intellectual elite, so please, Mr. professor, enlighten me.
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Obama wasn’t elected because the public rejected conservative values. Our Maximum Leader and the left won because:
• Bush 43 messed up in Iraq
• The economy went in the tank
• The lap dog press made Bush 43 look hapless
• The Republicans had no substantive plan to move forward except more of the same
• Obama out organized the RNC at the grass roots level
In marketing classes I took it was beat into the class that you don’t win a market share battle and overtake the market leader by emulating the market leader. You have to be different and be perceived as offering a “better” alternative to the market leader. I think this applies to politics, too.
People like Lindsey Graham and John McCain, who want to seen as centrists are taking us to the same the place as Maximum Leader. It’s just that the car is going slower. It takes longer to get to the same place. The left are not going to like them no matter what they do because they have a “R” initial after their name.
Look at Bush 43 who implemented Kennedy’s education program and started Medicare D. Once the “D’s” help get the bills passed they beat Bush 43 up about bills being too little.
If you are going to get beat up for tying what good did it do?
Let’s get beat up and let’s fight over conservative values. Conservative does not mean Republican – at least to me.
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This may be the first bad you hear about Pawlenty, but if he moves forward you will hear a lot of negative "spin."
The thing he is hated for up here by many is that he has a history of trying to hold the line on spending. However, when he is successful from his desk no one else will follow suit. So, what you end up with is DNR raising its license fees; agencies adding or raising fees for their services; and counties, cities and schools raising their levies. I'm not saying he is perfect or without blame, but he is catching heat that isn't his to take in a lot of areas.
Also, just like the on going list of "it's Bush's fault" list, did you know that all of our highway issues, including the colapse of a large bridge, are all Gov. Tim's fault?
While I'm waiting for the right guy to come along, Mr. Pawlenty is filling the lesser of evils slot at this time. However, you need to remember that I am just another nutted Minnesotan out here :'(
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Ok, smartass, explain two things to me, in light of your comments.
1) If the country is moderate with a slight lean to the right, why the hell did they (you) elect a Marxist/Socialist as President?
2) Kindly explain the two Reagan landslide victories.
I realize that I'm not an all-knowing member of the intellectual elite, so please, Mr. professor, enlighten me.
That makes two of us.
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1)They elected Obama partially for the same reason they elected Carter (and with much the same result it seems). That is, he came aong in the wake of a failed and disgraced GOP administration. As has been pointed out earlier, Bush screwed up. He failed the "Are you better off now then you were four years ago" test.
2) They elected him partially for the same reason they elected Reagan. He offered hope in the wake of failure. Americans love an optimist with a can do attitude. The program was different, but the sales pitch was the same.
3) As far as Reagan himself went, the man talked like a conservative, but governed as a pragmatist. He got his two big issues, tax cuts and a stronger military. Beyond that though he was pretty much a moderate with a rightward tilt. He talked a good game on abortion and the New Deal programs and the rest of it, but he really didn't do much about it. He didn't really want to, because he knew the American people wanted reform not revolution. Peggy Noonan (who ought to know better than either of us) wrote that Reagan wouldn't survive a GOP primary if he ran today. There is the real Reagan, and the current cult of Reagan. If you look back at the real Reagan you see a guy who was able to keep the base happy with small progress on their issues, but mostly just by listening to them and giving them a seat at the table. The religious right is exhibit A. He mostly hewed slightly right of center and didn't make too many enemies of the moderates. This let him build the broad coalitions he neede to get his two huge reforms through. This is a lesson that W., and it seems BO didn't get. The bottom line is that Reagan was a rhetorical President much like BO. The two big differences were that he was able to make the compromises necessary to get things done, and he was more in tune with te average Americns ideology than BO. If you're looking for ideological purity, Reagan ain't it. Great President, but not above making whatever compromises he needed to in order to push his main agenda through.
FQ13
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While I'm waiting for the right guy to come along, Mr. Pawlenty is filling the lesser of evils slot at this time. However, you need to remember that I am just another nutted Minnesotan out here :'(
Pawlenty is more conservative as the Gov than when he was in the MN House. The biggest thing he did in MN this year was vetoing all the tax increases and the budget bills. The legislature session ended without a tax or budget bill signed. Pawlenty refused to have a special session and he used emergency powers granted in MN law (unallotment) that gave him the right to build his own budget based on current tax revenue estimates. In essence he told the DFL controlled legislature "f**k you." He called their bluff. That’s worth something.
However, as m58 said, local taxes and fees have gone up to help cover the reduction in State money.
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However, as m58 said, local taxes and fees have gone up to help cover the reduction in State money.
And I don't know where you stand on this move WatchManUSA, but I say good move Mr. Pawlenty, and bad move agencies and local officials for not holding the line. When the general public is holding still or hurting it is time for public workers to suck it up as well. However, the majority of our public workers are union with guaranteed benefits and pay increases (the pay increases may not be much, but 5% over three years with 3% the first is better than many private sector). Look at our teachers that may "only" get 3% over two years (latest contract down here), but that does not include the contractural and mentioned increase for longevity and continuing education. Everyyear these teachers are getting increases for just teaching another year and for taking college classes that raise there payscale point.
Rant ... on hold, but not off >:(
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I'm only going to address FQ's Items 1 & 2 here. And sorry Watchman I have to disagree with your item #1 and expand on your Item #2
• Bush 43 messed up in Iraq
Iraq has a stable government violence has been radically curtailed, huge numbers of terrorists were killed and despite the defeatist statements of the Dems the surge did work. Where is the error ?
• The economy went in the tank
That it did, but it was the result of economic affirmative action programs forced through congress by the likes of Barney Frank and Maxine Waters (who is under investigation for corruption charges, after skating on assaulting a cop ) that forced banks to lend money to borrowers who had no hope of repaying the loans, in the name of "economic equality". Fact, poor people aren't economically equal to any one but other poor people.
1)They elected Obama partially for the same reason they elected Carter (and with much the same result it seems). That is, he came aong in the wake of a failed and disgraced GOP administration. As has been pointed out earlier, Bush screwed up. He failed the "Are you better off now then you were four years ago" test.
See my comment above, I will also add that You and I both had jobs under Bush. Are you better off than you were a year ago ?
2) They elected him partially for the same reason they elected Reagan. He offered hope in the wake of failure. Americans love an optimist with a can do attitude. The program was different, but the sales pitch was the same.
He was elected because he spent more than any 3 candidates combined in previous history and STILL needed the help of the leftist media in an unprecedented display of biased reporting in support of his media blitz.
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And I don't know where you stand on this move WatchManUSA, but I say good move Mr. Pawlenty, and bad move agencies and local officials for not holding the line. When the general public is holding still or hurting it is time for public workers to suck it up as well. However, the majority of our public workers are union with guaranteed benefits and pay increases (the pay increases may not be much, but 5% over three years with 3% the first is better than many private sector). Look at our teachers that may "only" get 3% over two years (latest contract down here), but that does not include the contractural and mentioned increase for longevity and continuing education. Everyyear these teachers are getting increases for just teaching another year and for taking college classes that raise there payscale point.
Rant ... on hold, but not off >:(
I agree with most of what you say except for the continuing education bit. We want our teachers, and other employees to stay current in their fields. Do you really want someone using the same ten year old lecture notes that look like they were found with the dead sea scrolls? College courses cost money and require time and effort. That should be rewarded or folks won't bother.
FQ13
PS the same applies to cops and emts and city engineers. Stay current or get left behind.
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But staying relevant and current in you profession is (or should be) necessary to stay employed, not something for which you get rewarded.
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I agree with most of what you say except for the continuing education bit. We want our teachers, and other employees to stay current in their fields. Do you really want someone using the same ten year old lecture notes that look like they were found with the dead sea scrolls? College courses cost money and require time and effort. That should be rewarded or folks won't bother.
FQ13
PS the same applies to cops and emts and city engineers. Stay current or get left behind.
When private sector licensed workers, and unlicensed for that matter, are needing to get continuing education to keep their position or to better their performance and not getting reimbursed or increases, why should they support the practice in the public sector with their hard earned tax dollars? In Minnesota, the playing field isn't level, and that is why you see so many people trying to get in to the public sector.
In answer to your comments on rewards, most are told their reward is maintaining their job!
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Do you really want someone using the same ten year old lecture notes that look like they were found with the dead sea scrolls?
Why not if the students learned the actual lesson from them ? Why was there any need, in subjects other than hard sciences where new discoveries have made old lesson plans obsolete, to change the lesson plans of a 100+ years ago ? Those students figured out the math needed to build America's largest structures and put a man on the moon. It is worth noting that since the "New lesson plans" have come into effect in industry we have not been back to the moon.
PS the same applies to cops and emts and city engineers. Stay current or get left behind.
I can see the need to maintain certifications, and inform Cops of new laws, beyond that, again, no need for "new lesson plans" as the most efficient methods of stabilizing a patient or managing traffic flow change very slowly if at all.
I will also note that my last raise was 1.8 % and that was strictly on merit as the Corporation did not give cost of living raises.
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m58, as I think you know I live in “the Cities” in one of the more conservative suburbs on the west side. We have been able to manage holding back some of levy increases. I don’t like them when they happen.
Some info on State employees, at least in the MNSCU (State Colleges and Universities), I’ll pass along. For this year all there are no state raises and no step increases. Benefits are also frozen. Next year I believe there is scheduled 1% or 2% raise but I still think the steps are frozen. The health benefits are scheduled to increase in costs to the employee with no change in coverage. I’m not suggesting that we need to cry for them.
Tom, I was reflecting the perception of the electorate. There is an old sales saying that "perception is reality." Regardless of what is true or reasoned or how the perception was created - perception is reality.
So I was reflecting my perception of the perception of the electorate. I perceive that, perhaps you didn't understand my personal perspective on their perception. ;)
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Sorry Watchman, I did not pick up on that. Thanks for clarifying it.
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Sorry guys, but you are dead wrong here. Even history does change. New facts, new interpretations, new methodologies etc? What do you think profs do all day? Show up for a 1 hr lecture and go home? All those new books and journal articles just wasted ink? The new biographies on Roosevelt and Adams a waste of time to read, hell there was a book written in 1889, why go further? ::) The point is that the classes and hours are a bonus to the employer, and an extra burden to the employee they shoud be compensated. As far as EMTs and cops, todays policing techniques whether it be SWAT or forensics or even riot control are light years ahead of what they were a decade ago. Private industry knows this. Why do so many corporations pay for courses and advanced degrees? Why is the militay willing to pay for advanced degrees for its officers and BAs for NCOs? Charity? I think not. Nothing comes for free. You want the best educated, most prepared teachers (cops, engineers, EMTs) it will cost you. Talent follows money.
FQ13
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Sorry guys, but you are dead wrong here. Even history does change. New facts, new interpretations, new methodologies etc? What do you think profs do all day? Show up for a 1 hr lecture and go home? All those new books and journal articles just wasted ink? The new biographies on Roosevelt and Adams a waste of time to read, hell there was a book written in 1889, why go further? ::) FQ13
Seems you just shot (for the most part) your own argument in the foot.
While new "facts" may be discovered from time to time concerning certain historical items, and brought to light, it is the liberal 'interprtations & methodologies' of/by humans of those hard facts that has twisted the educational system to the point that is now.
For example, it is generally agreed in historical data that Hitler and his minions were largely responsible for the extermination of over six million human beings over a set period of time. Now, there is a growing tide in certain cultures and parts of the world that are in part denying the existence of the Holocaust in its entirety. If you get enough 'educated professionals' interpreting and methodizing long enough on the subject, in a few more generations it is conceivable that people will accept it as 'historical fact' that it didn't happen.
Now as to the topic of Conservative leadership..... as long as Conservatives continue to 'needle each other' on the small individual personal issues and nit-pick at each segment of their own side on every little issue, they will never form into a single cohesive fighting unit to overthrow the flowing tide of the liberal agenda. The biggest problem with the Conservatives is lack of solidarity. You don't need the same level of solidarity with the liberal agenda due to the appeal to the masses (ie hand-outs ans such).
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Sorry guys, but you are dead wrong here. Even history does change. New facts, new interpretations, new methodologies etc? What do you think profs do all day? Show up for a 1 hr lecture and go home? All those new books and journal articles just wasted ink? The new biographies on Roosevelt and Adams a waste of time to read, hell there was a book written in 1889, why go further? ::) The point is that the classes and hours are a bonus to the employer, and an extra burden to the employee they shoud be compensated. As far as EMTs and cops, todays policing techniques whether it be SWAT or forensics or even riot control are light years ahead of what they were a decade ago. Private industry knows this. Why do so many corporations pay for courses and advanced degrees? Why is the militay willing to pay for advanced degrees for its officers and BAs for NCOs? Charity? I think not. Nothing comes for free. You want the best educated, most prepared teachers (cops, engineers, EMTs) it will cost you. Talent follows money.
FQ13
Did you even read my response to this? I addressed all of these issues in comparison of public vs. private.
WatchMan - Every entity is different. I was referring to our local schools, city and county workers. Since I quit teaching I am out of touch with much of MSCU.
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The fact is, FQ, those of us out here in the real world are getting tired of OUR employees (ie, those feeding at the government tit) enjoying salary increases, expecting to have the cost of their CE covered, etc., while at the same time, those of us paying the bills are just damn happy to have a job.....even when that job does NOT include an annual pay raise, and a ridiculous benefit package.
Perhaps if you'd step outside your hallowed halls of academia for just a bit, and take a look around the REAL world, some things might become more clear to you.
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The fact is, FQ, those of us out here in the real world are getting tired of OUR employees (ie, those feeding at the government tit) enjoying salary increases, expecting to have the cost of their CE covered, etc., while at the same time, those of us paying the bills are just damn happy to have a job.....even when that job does NOT include an annual pay raise, and a ridiculous benefit package.
Perhaps if you'd step outside your hallowed halls of academia for just a bit, and take a look around the REAL world, some things might become more clear to you.
In case you haven't noticed, I'm in the not so hallowed halls of unemployment eating my savings and a very much reduced portfolio (not that there was much of one to begin with) so reality and I are are on intimate terms. Secondly, I agree about absurd benefits. My argument was over CE raises. Again, talent follows money. You can't expect excellence and pay for mediocrity. Saying to an employee, if you go out and get this certification, that degree, these advanced training classes on your own time and dime and we'll pay you more, or promote you, they will. You don't, they won't.
FQ13
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In case you haven't noticed, I'm in the not so hallowed halls of unemployment eating my savings and a very much reduced portfolio (not that there was much of one to begin with) so reality and I are are on intimate terms. Secondly, I agree about absurd benefits. My argument was over CE raises. Again, talent follows money. You can't expect excellence and pay for mediocrity. Saying to an employee, if you go out and get this certification, that degree, these advanced training classes on your own time and dime and we'll pay you more, or promote you, they will. You don't, they won't.
FQ13
So, how do you explain those of us that do it ourselves, don't get reimbursed but keep coming in day in and day out? There are a lot of us out here just thankful to have the job, or should I say paycheck.
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So, how do you explain those of us that do it ourselves, don't get reimbursed but keep coming in day in and day out? There are a lot of us out here just thankful to have the job, or should I say paycheck.
The exact point I was trying to make.
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So, how do you explain those of us that do it ourselves, don't get reimbursed but keep coming in day in and day out? There are a lot of us out here just thankful to have the job, or should I say paycheck.
You and I take pride in our work. To many don't. You provide a culture of excellence and reward it, excellence is what you'll get. If medocrity is the norm, you get a work to rule mentality. To many folks will say why bother if it doesn't benefit me. Anyone whos had a job sees this every day.
FQ13
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You and I take pride in our work. To many don't. You provide a culture of excellence and reward it, excellence is what you'll get. If medocrity is the norm, you get a work to rule mentality. To many folks will say why bother if it doesn't benefit me. Anyone whos had a job sees this every day.
FQ13
You're missing the point. The benefit is in continuing to receive a paycheck.
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Spoke with a disgruntled and frustrated marine carpenter who supported BHO, for "hope & change".
I asked a simple question.
How was your business from 2002 to 2008?
He said it was smoking,.... hired more help, gave raises, provided company vans, annual company bonus parties, not including Christmas. Average bonus for an employee with 2 years employment was $8000.00 :o.
I asked him if it was coincidental that now he can't do any of those things, or if he sees those days coming again. He was NOT so optimistic about the hope and change he voted for.
The point is what is the alternative? A lame and misdirected RINO Republican Party?
LBJ sucked so we got Nixon,
Nixon sucked so we got Carter,
Carter really sucked, so we got Reagan.
Reagan worked, despite a Dem Congress, and we got Bush 41.
To some Bush 41 sucked so we got Clinton,
Clinton was Clinton, and we got GWB,
GWB to some was good, to some was the devil,
the system gave us McCain or BHO.
The back and forth of one lame ass party to another has got to stop.
BHO was the slicker package, but I don't want the Republican Party as it is now, Michael Steele is a RINO. Hoffman in NY is running as an Independent, but on Glenn Beck, said he was a Conservative that can't find the same values within the Republican Party to support that party.
The elitist, pompous, arrogant, politicians 99% of them, need to be sent a message. Talk is cheap, and selling your soul to the special interests, and personal power trip, is ruining this country.
The percentage of sheeple will always fall for the slickest speeches on the stump, but what has that gotten us?
I'm tired and pissed of being USED by MY/OUR Gov't.
If it takes a third party fine, but we better start getting through to those bastards in DC, and remind them who they work for.
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In case you haven't noticed, I'm in the not so hallowed halls of unemployment eating my savings and a very much reduced portfolio (not that there was much of one to begin with) so reality and I are are on intimate terms. Secondly, I agree about absurd benefits. My argument was over CE raises. Again, talent follows money. You can't expect excellence and pay for mediocrity. Saying to an employee, if you go out and get this certification, that degree, these advanced training classes on your own time and dime and we'll pay you more, or promote you, they will. You don't, they won't.
FQ13
Try explaining that to my former lead man who, after taking 2 different classes at the local community college ON THE ADVICE OF THE PLANT MANAGER, , not only was told he would not receive a raise, but actually had his pay CUT by $.50/ hour