The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Teresa Heilevang on October 30, 2009, 01:17:51 AM
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Today's Army...sorta like a made-for-TV ad
http://shock.military.com/Shock/videos.do?displayContent=203118&ESRC=army-a.nl
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:o very cool
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Chalk up 2 for the good guys!
Richard
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I just been looking it up
it is from a HBO Show
http://www.hbo.com/generationkill/
might have to go and "look" in to it a little more ;)
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The book Generation Kill was a true story about a reporter attached to a Recon Marine platoon.
The author could never figure out what made the Marines tick. It was like a reading a poodle describe wolves. He did a good job of covering the action and movement around Baghdad
I have no idea what HBO did to it but some of the clips I saw were not in the book.
Read the book.
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Ratcatcher, In the Marine Newsletter I receive (www.grunt.com/newsletter ) The book, as well as the show were ripped pretty badly. The main complaint was that even though the author described what he saw because he did not understand the "Marine/military culture" his portrayal was highly inaccurate. Like asking a cave man to describe a helicopter he lacked the frame of reference to understand what was going on around him and often misunderstood events and comments.
For example, pre engagement banter, usually an attempt to lighten the mood, and steady nervous troops is not seen by the author as "elan" and "Esprit de corps", but are portrayed as callousness and cynicism.
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Ratcatcher, In the Marine Newsletter I receive (www.grunt.com/newsletter ) The book, as well as the show were ripped pretty badly. The main complaint was that even though the author described what he saw because he did not understand the "Marine/military culture" his portrayal was highly inaccurate. Like asking a cave man to describe a helicopter he lacked the frame of reference to understand what was going on around him and often misunderstood events and comments.
For example, pre engagement banter, usually an attempt to lighten the mood, and steady nervous troops is not seen by the author as "elan" and "Esprit de corps", but are portrayed as callousness and cynicism.
Tom,
I would agree with you. He does describe the action but can not understand why things happen. He went from the Village Voice in NYC to a running gunbattle in Iraq in a matter of days. He was clueless but what he was feeliing and seeing are well written.
In one case a Marine offers him a firearm as they are going to make a mad dash thru enemy village in a HUMVEE.
The author refuses because guns make him uncomfortable. The grunt thinks he's nuts.
Mr. Wright makes no bones about the fact that he can't understand the Marines, especially several enlisted men who join after college.
He does praise their courage and teamwork.
IMHO I would say that if you read it you would identify with the Marines and the laugh at the author. My father in law (SGTMAJ USMC) had no problem with it.
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Thanks for the information. I have not read the book or seen the show. I was just passing on the opinions from the news letter.
Tell your FIL I said Semper Fi.
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Thanks for the information. I have not read the book or seen the show. I was just passing on the opinions from the news letter.
Tell your FIL I said Semper Fi.
And add an oo-rah for me. ;D
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Tom and TT11758,
I'm sure he'll wish you the same.
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I haven't read Generation Kill, but reading this thread reminded me of Mike Force (http://www.amazon.com/Mike-Force-Lewis-Burruss/dp/0595165249/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1256935786&sr=1-1), written about combat in Vietnam. The author, Lewis "Bucky" Burruss, is not a reporter, but was one of the commanders of the highly mobile Special Forces units called "Mike Force" that raced to assist other more conventional units that were in trouble.
Bucky's a neighbor and friend. He concluded his military career as deputy commander of the Army's 1stSFOD-D (Delta Force), which he helped create as an aide to Col. Beckwith. Bucky was a high school English teacher before he decided to make his career in the Army. He's written five novels in addition to the first-person Mike Force, in which he names names and pulls no punches. Unfortunately the book received little attention in the Vietnam era, just as our military people were scorned and ignored.
But the book's back in print. It's a treasure.
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I've seen it at the Library, I will have to read it.
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I actually watched that episode. M40, yessir, Me like, here is mine.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/m25operator/100_1334.jpg)
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When you care enough to send the very best.
I know its not the same caliber, but the foundation is still there.
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/50cal.jpg)
;D
Is it me or does Clark Kent look like Gene Hackman in a great hat,... ;)
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/gene_hackman.jpg)
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/avatar_5501.jpg)
Hat? Sunglasses? He was once Lex Luther after all,.... ;D
Just an observation, Clark, you will always be Clark Kent here...
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Damn! You guys are good - glad you're on our side! ;D
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Great video....but it got me thinkin'......if all the Marines were issued a .308 battle rifle w/ optic, they wouldn't have needed to call in a sniper on those two baddies.....
Keep up the good work, Devil Dogs! 8)
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It isn't the rifle that makes a shot like that possible.
I wonder why the spotter was taken out first??? I would have thought the guy holding the weapon would be target 1...
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BM I am the 1st to say give that rifle to the untrained and they will not make that shot, give the sniper a rack grade 700 sporter and he will do better than anyone else. The distance called was 979, I don't know yards or meters, either way a head shot at that distance probably would not happen with the standard rifle, and truth, would be bad ass with the M40, mine shoots 7" on a great day at 1,000 yds. That means on a great day, it will hit 3.5" from point of aim. Easy to miss a head size target, but no problem on a torso.
It's TV, but I think the spotter was 1st because he had eyes on them, could call in Artillery on their location. Could just be TV drama as well.
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My only question was. I wonder why the spotter first? In my mind, and in any protocal I've seen, the guy who is a direct threat is the first target. :-\
I've read, & heard from several sources when the military buy's M40's they completely rework them before they ever get in the field. Action, barrels, bedding, often completely different barrels are installed after the action is blue printed, polished & rebuilt... The out of the box M40 is SWEET. But... It appears not "sweet" enough. What I meant by my first comment was to reply to the previous comment of "every soldier should be toteing a bolt action"... The average soldier I've seen shoot isn't going to gain much by it. It's not the rifle, it's the shooter who makes a head shot at 979 whatevers. ;)
Remember the video on here a while back where the guy made a shot with a snubby at 100 yards?
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Without his spotter, a shooter is taking more time with lack of rangefinder, and partner in windage, and other variables.
Similar to a pilot losing his wingman, they become vulnerable to counter attack without the benefit of back-up.
Take out the spotter with the better scope, and the shooter has to rely on many more conditions while under the possibility of being discovered, were talking the better part of a mile shot.
1000 yds. = 3000 feet approx. hitting a Dixie Plate "head shot". Lots of conditions that I am thankful our snipers know how to compensate for.
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True enough.
What I'm thinking is that the spotter (who is also a shooter on another day) finishes his job first. It's possible the spotter had already done his job of ranging, giveing windage, and such, and was waiting on the shooter to take the shot. Take out the spotter, and you may be getting shot back at in very short order. Take out the shooter first, and it would take the spotter MUCH longer to return fire.
Did I say all that right? ??? ;D Ultimately... I'm not the one on the spot (movie or not), and it's HIS decision. BUT, I thought protocal was to hit the shooter first. :-\
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The M40's are not commercially available, they are made by the Marine corp armorers, my 2 were built by Mike Lau, Marine corp, armorer, retired. Texas Brigade armory. Mingus TX.
The shooter was engaging to the left of the unit, but probably friendly to us. As I mentioned, the spotter was seeing the counter sniper and unit, and that may be why. Then again, it could be pure hollywood.
TW the spotter is a very good thing, but does not make the corrections using a range finder, he or she should have the same mildot reticle to judge distance as the shooter does, they are both trained in range estimation, and environmental conditions. The spotter is also the protection for the shooter, the shooter is focused on the glass and the target, impervious to anything on his 3, 9, or 6 o'clock.
The spotter has a wider field of view, and the training to keep checking the 6 of the shooter. Also usually has a semi auto.
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Having a spotter who is not the shooter, has the calculations to be the "brains" behind the shooter. The skill of the sniper is to take in all that the spotter gives him, adjust, and make the shot.
If the spotter goes down, the shooter is fully capable of continuing, but will become somewhat hindered in his assessment of the target, if speed is the issue.
It will require time the shooter may not have to ensure the "lights out" shot. At anything over 750+ yds???
Those are shots we wish we could make, and are thankful to those, on our side, that can "call the ball" and send it.
And than sometimes you don;t even need a spotter.....
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/654-1.jpg)
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/50cal.jpg)\
Love those American Sharpshooters
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Love those American Sharpshooters
(http://i37.tinypic.com/2l94it2.jpg)
(http://jonbryan.com/uploads/Attitude.jpg)
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Since it was an RPG position, I would have definitely went for the one with the weapon first. If he already had ranging info he was the first threat. Then while the other guy was trying to pick up the RPG, I would sight in and send him an invitation to the party.
Just my pennies worth.
8)
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if your buddies head popped off would you be wondering; "gonna shoot him for that" or "shit, he's got me, lets high tail it"?
Besides, RPG self detonates after 700m
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OK, call it 'personal preference' ..... I'd still shoot the guy with the weapon first..... my mind just works that way. ;) ;D