The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: bestseller92 on November 09, 2009, 05:35:39 PM
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In the latest issue of Dillion Precision's catalog, "The Blue Press", Jerry Ahern has a nice article on arming oneself for TEOTWAWKI.
Typical of Ahern, it's a well written, informative piece. But I do take issue with one of the points Ahern makes in his article.
When it comes to choosing a handgun, Ahern says, "In a handgun, you want a caliber you're going to readily find. Stick with something the local cops carry -- even if it's 9mm Parabellum -- and you'll have a better chance of acquiring or replenishing your handgun ammo from local shops, etc."
I disagree.
If the Great Ammo Scarcity of 2009 has told us anything, it's that, in an emergency situation, you're not going to be able to find ANY ammo at all. Even when all we had was fear of Congress passsing and the President signing ornerous gun ownership restrictions, any handgun ammo at all was nearly impossible to come by.
Now consider how much more difficult it would be to get in a true TEO TWAWKI situation. It would not be difficult. It would be IMPOSSIBLE.
In fact, the ammo that did seem to be available during the ammo shortage (which has eased up but not yet ended) was that for the more obscure calibers -- .357 SIG, .44 Magnum, and even .45 Colt.
Am I saying that we need to choose those more obscure calibers so we'll be able to find ammo in an emergency situation? No.
What I am saying is that it doesn't really matter which caliber you choose. In an emergency, ammo is NOT going to be available. So, whatever caliber you choose now, STOCK UP NOW.
If you want a .357 SIG, fine -- just stock up on enough ammo (whatever "enough" means to you) NOW. If you want a .38 Super, also fine -- just stock up now. And if you want a 9mm, that's great, too. But don't think that just because it's a more common caliber you're going to be able to find ammo in a true emergency situation.
You won't.
Stock up NOW.
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well said. i am currently only sitting on 5 boxes of 9 and 3 of .223. but the idea of emergency round here is when the convenient store runs out of bud light.
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I have to agree with Ahern, you are more like to find the calibers produced by the 100 million than the ones produced by the 100 thousand.
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I'm going to have to come down with Jerry, but I also think BestSeller is right on stocking up NOW NOW NOW! There's reasonable Russian stuff for about $260 per K and 7.62 X 39 at $230 per K. 9mm's still high at $260 per K for ball, but there's a lot of .45 ACP in the .40 cent a round range.
First and foremost, stock up on the lowly .22LR...you can get el cheapo Federal for $162 per 5000 at Widneners, and wouldn't you feel better with 5K of .22s in your gun room?
Michael B
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Only if I had rifle or pistol in that caliber ;D
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"I have long preached that one should never be caught short in his personal armament, either in regard to the weapons or the ammunition. Keep up your supply, and do not neglect the 22 rimfire, which may well turn into the "ballistic wampum" I have spoken of the past. If you have any loading equipment, stock primers, which may constitute the weakest link in the chain."
Jeff Cooper
I keep making small purchases every month. 150rds. here, 250 rds. there, split a larger order with a co-worker which is a great idea .
Split 1000rds. of something with a co-worker/ friend/ shooting partner, etc,... It makes things somewhat easier.
Although relying on yourself and your own "stash" is paramount, more common calibers will always be available some where to be "bartered" for something. The capitalistic nature of humans is inherent.
Maybe not an emergency seed bank, but something.
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/Ammo.jpg)
I've still got room in the garage for some 45Colt... ::)
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I am a big fan of the stockpilng theory, whatever the caliber and again .22 is cheap and you easily stick 1000 rounds in a backpack.
As far as caliber choices, I think Ahern is right, go common.
Aside from your stash, which you may not be able to move, the next best sources are what you can barter for, what you can find in abandonded/burned out homes and businesses and battlefield pick-ups. Then there is joining a group. All things being equal, I'd rather see a guy with an AR, a 9mm or .357 and a 12 gauge and say 500 rounds per each than someone with a .357 sig a 16 gauge and a 7.62x.51 with the same ammo.
FQ13
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You have officially got the biggest-best-badass garage EVER!
Yup I am in lust.
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I agree with stocking up on .22. And .38, .357, 12 gauge, 20 gauge, 8mm Mauser with stripper clips (yes, clips is correct use there) etc etc...Mostly I say stock up on what is is your safe. Don't buy ammo you don't have a gun for. I also say, realistically, don't stock up on the ammo if that gun is going to stay in your safe when you bug out.
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wouldn't you feel better with 5K of .22s in your gun room?
Michael B
until I shoot it up and need to buy more.
I'm currently on the brick plan, every range trip, I buy a bring a brick and buy a brick. I never shoot all 500, so I always come homw with more then I went with... now if I could only do that with brass. ::)
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Twenty two shells are to my ammo stash what rice is to my emergency food supply. Cheap and easy to buy and put back.
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"I have long preached that one should never be caught short in his personal armament, either in regard to the weapons or the ammunition. Keep up your supply, and do not neglect the 22 rimfire, which may well turn into the "ballistic wampum" I have spoken of the past. If you have any loading equipment, stock primers, which may constitute the weakest link in the chain."
Jeff Cooper
I keep making small purchases every month. 150rds. here, 250 rds. there, split a larger order with a co-worker which is a great idea .
Split 1000rds. of something with a co-worker/ friend/ shooting partner, etc,... It makes things somewhat easier.
Although relying on yourself and your own "stash" is paramount, more common calibers will always be available some where to be "bartered" for something. The capitalistic nature of humans is inherent.
Maybe not an emergency seed bank, but something.
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/Ammo.jpg)
I've still got room in the garage for some 45Colt... ::)
How the HELL did you manage to get a photo of my ammo locker? ???
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Twenty two shells are to my ammo stash what rice is to my emergency food supply. Cheap and easy to buy and put back.
IF you can find any!
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IF you can find any!
Actually, Haz, rice has been fairly plentiful. ;D
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Actually, Haz, rice has been fairly plentiful. ;D
Ya know, every body like a little ass but NObody likes a smart ass!
So YOU lose on BOTH accounts!
;D
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IF you can find any!
Actually, over the course of the summer I was able to acquire about 10k rounds of .22, and only have shot up about half of it.
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Actually, over the course of the summer I was able to acquire about 10k rounds of .22, and only have shot up about half of it.
It has been dry around here. Only small amounts of 50 round CCI for $15.00!
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It has been dry around here. Only small amounts of 50 round CCI for $15.00!
I think the most I paid was $11.50/100
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My Dad was complaining last week He was in Boise Id. at Cabela's and had to pay $30 for 500
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My Dad was complaining last week He was in Boise Id. at Cabela's and had to pay $30 for 500
Poor guy. ::)
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IF you can find any!
Our local Wally World usually has either Federal, Remington or Winchester bulk packs in stock these days. Two weeks ago it was Winchester (the Winchester bulk packs are 333 rounders for $10.47), last weekend it was Federal, today it was Remington. The Federals and Remingtons are 550 rounders that go for about $16.97.
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Still dry here
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Same here.
If I drive down to BASS, past Fort Myers Airport, I have a 75% chance of getting Remington Golden Bullet Bulk for $20.00.
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I haven't seen a 525 pack in at least 8 months!
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Seems like what you can get depends on where you are. up here the last time I checked could get all I want of any thing except .44 Spec or .380
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I've been selling .45ACP, .380's and .38SP JHP's to my friends because they can't find any.
I even got the .32 topbreak Smith in an ammo trade.
.22LR is no where to be found.
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locallly cheap 22s are hard to find, the better stuff is pretty easy, just pricy.
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Seems like what you can get depends on where you are. up here the last time I checked could get all I want of any thing except .44 Spec or .380
I am sending you a PM on this
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Seems like what you can get depends on where you are. up here the last time I checked could get all I want of any thing except .44 Spec or .380
BIG TIME!
The Michigan Bass Pro I lived 15 minutes from had any and everything you could want to buy. And even the prices were getting very close to Pre-Obama prices when we left.
We moved down to South Carolina three months ago and shelves are near bare. We're 10 minutes from the Bass Pro here, and I haven't seen but half a dozen boxes of .380 the whole time. Finding .45ACP, or .44 mag is but a distant dream.
Thankfully rimfire stuff has been plentiful in both states though. It's the only thing I haden't stocked up on pre-obama, except .45acp. I've got between 300 & 2000 rounds stocked up for every gun I own in ammo cans, and box's like this. :)
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1010392.jpg?t=1257953215)
What worries me is. Have you got any idea what 1,000 rounds of .308, 12 gauge, or even 7.62X39 weighs?!?! If my truck ain't movin, neither is this ammo!!!
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If my truck ain't movin, neither is this ammo!!!
You will have to use the ammo to get your truck moving similar to RP in the "Economic Collapse" BDS video clip.
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Also this brings up another great reason to have "fireteams" or multiple group members. Note that not everyone can have ample supply of everything and ammo is but one (important) component to survival.