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Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: crusader rabbit on November 12, 2009, 05:26:29 PM

Title: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: crusader rabbit on November 12, 2009, 05:26:29 PM
From the Surrey Mirror newspaper in Surrey, England

Ex-soldier faces jail for handing in gun
Thursday, November 12, 2009, 10:30

A former soldier who handed a discarded shotgun in to police faces at least five years imprisonment for "doing his duty".

Paul Clarke, 27, was found guilty of possessing a firearm at Guildford Crown Court on Tuesday – after finding the gun and handing it personally to police officers on March 20 this year.

The jury took 20 minutes to make its conviction, and Mr Clarke now faces a minimum of five year's imprisonment for handing in the weapon.

In a statement read out in court, Mr Clarke said: "I didn't think for one moment I would be arrested.

"I thought it was my duty to hand it in and get it off the streets."

The court heard how Mr Clarke was on the balcony of his home in Nailsworth Crescent, Merstham, when he spotted a black bin liner at the bottom of his garden.

In his statement, he said: "I took it indoors and inside found a shorn-off shotgun and two cartridges.

"I didn't know what to do, so the next morning I rang the Chief Superintendent, Adrian Harper, and asked if I could pop in and see him.

"At the police station, I took the gun out of the bag and placed it on the table so it was pointing towards the wall."

Mr Clarke was then arrested immediately for possession of a firearm at Reigate police station, and taken to the cells.

Defending, Lionel Blackman told the jury Mr Clarke's garden backs onto a public green field, and his garden wall is significantly lower than his neighbours.

He also showed jurors a leaflet printed by Surrey Police explaining to citizens what they can do at a police station, which included "reporting found firearms".

Quizzing officer Garnett, who arrested Mr Clarke, he asked: "Are you aware of any notice issued by Surrey Police, or any publicity given to, telling citizens that if they find a firearm the only thing they should do is not touch it, report it by telephone, and not take it into a police station?"

To which, Mr Garnett replied: "No, I don't believe so."

Prosecuting, Brian Stalk, explained to the jury that possession of a firearm was a "strict liability" charge – therefore Mr Clarke's allegedly honest intent was irrelevant.

Just by having the gun in his possession he was guilty of the charge, and has no defence in law against it, he added.

But despite this, Mr Blackman urged members of the jury to consider how they would respond if they found a gun.

He said: "This is a very small case with a very big principle.

"You could be walking to a railway station on the way to work and find a firearm in a bin in the park.

"Is it unreasonable to take it to the police station?"

Paul Clarke will be sentenced on December 11.

Judge Christopher Critchlow said: "This is an unusual case, but in law there is no dispute that Mr Clarke has no defence to this charge.

"The intention of anybody possessing a firearm is irrelevant."
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: Big Frank on November 12, 2009, 05:31:08 PM
It sucks to be English. They should have thanked him, not arrested him.  ???
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: pioneer on November 12, 2009, 05:34:31 PM
INSANITY!

Thank God my ancestors fled the crown and came to America.
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: Pathfinder on November 12, 2009, 05:38:40 PM
See, this is what I worry about here. Obviously the English subjects citizens have run out of rope to hang these asinine, moronic, assholes who fill the unknown number of bureaucratic positions in the English gummint and courts. They ran out of rope, obviously.

Either that or the cajones to use the rope . . . .
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: PegLeg45 on November 12, 2009, 05:51:29 PM
FTA:
Quote
Just by having the gun in his possession he was guilty of the charge, and has no defence in law against it, he added.

But despite this, Mr Blackman urged members of the jury to consider how they would respond if they found a gun.

He said: "This is a very small case with a very big principle.

"You could be walking to a railway station on the way to work and find a firearm in a bin in the park.

"Is it unreasonable to take it to the police station?"

Paul Clarke will be sentenced on December 11.

Judge Christopher Critchlow said: "This is an unusual case, but in law there is no dispute that Mr Clarke has no defence to this charge.

"The intention of anybody possessing a firearm is irrelevant."


Another fine example of that stiff British "Damn the Logic" crap........and a textbook example of sheeple.   >:(

They get what they are willing to put up with............... just like us, if we keep on going in the direction we are going.



Remind anyone of a current trend in the US?

HINT: Zero Tolerance.
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: tombogan03884 on November 12, 2009, 06:16:57 PM
 Thank God for the last Revolution.
Any body still think the NEXT one will be a BAD idea ?
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: twyacht on November 12, 2009, 06:52:23 PM
from article:

"The intention of anybody possessing a firearm is irrelevant."


Remember those words my friends, a catalyst that could lead to a second Revolution, will happen when those words are enforced here.

"Quiet desperation is the English way"
Pink Floyd.

Too Late For them...  :'(
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: ericire12 on November 12, 2009, 07:23:53 PM
WOW!
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: Badgersmilk on November 12, 2009, 07:35:32 PM
WOW!

Yeah, +1!  I don't know what else to say to that story!
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: fightingquaker13 on November 12, 2009, 07:53:26 PM
Can we offer him poliyical asylum? Honestly I don't know if there is a pardon process in English law, but there damn well should be. If the judge's hands are tied by the same BS "mandatory minimum", "three strikes", or "zero tolerance" crap we have here I can't blame him. But the prosecutor? What kind of crack was he on to file charges? The cops were reasonable to be suspicious (I'm not sure that covers arrest though), they didn't know if was telling the truth or not. The Judge had to sentence him, if its mandatory. Its the prosecutor and the jury I don't get. How can you be so freaking stupid and ungrateful to a vet? What the Hell happened to Britian?
FQ13
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: tombogan03884 on November 12, 2009, 08:56:27 PM
Can we offer him poliyical asylum? Honestly I don't know if there is a pardon process in English law, but there damn well should be. If the judge's hands are tied by the same BS "mandatory minimum", "three strikes", or "zero tolerance" crap we have here I can't blame him. But the prosecutor? What kind of crack was he on to file charges? The cops were reasonable to be suspicious (I'm not sure that covers arrest though), they didn't know if was telling the truth or not. The Judge had to sentence him, if its mandatory. Its the prosecutor and the jury I don't get. How can you be so freaking stupid and ungrateful to a vet? What the Hell happened to Britian?
FQ13


  One word, liberals
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: tt11758 on November 13, 2009, 05:03:05 PM

  liberals



I thought Marshal had installed some kind of filter to clean up dirty words on here.  Apparently he missed one.  ;D
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: Pathfinder on November 13, 2009, 06:40:51 PM

I thought Marshal had installed some kind of filter to clean up dirty words on here.  Apparently he missed one.  ;D

F..k l.b.r.ls

Like this?
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: brosometal on November 13, 2009, 10:06:53 PM
What I learned from this:

If faced with the exact situation it would be better for me to stockpile the weapon for later use on certain uptight English jackdonkeys' that need their brain pan ventilated. Hell, the result is the same, so why not.
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: philw on November 13, 2009, 10:56:50 PM
hmm  was the copper a Brit ??? 


scary thing is that can / may have  happen here 
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: fightingquaker13 on November 13, 2009, 11:30:21 PM
What I learned from this:

If faced with the exact situation it would be better for me to stockpile the weapon for later use on certain uptight English jackdonkeys' that need their brain pan ventilated. Hell, the result is the same, so why not.
Eric
If you're awake this should be comment of the day. The law means that its better to either leave it on the the street for anyone's child to find or take it yourself. As Brosmetal says, your going to prison either way, might as well have a sawed off to make it expensive for them. Doing the responsible thing buys you prison. How long do expect people to repect much less obey the law in these circumstances?
FQ13
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: philw on November 13, 2009, 11:39:01 PM
hmm  was the copper a Brit ??? 


scary thing is that can / may have  happen here 


actually just checked    there are provisions in the Act to allow us to hand in firearms  that are un registered / have been found
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: brosometal on November 14, 2009, 11:47:51 AM
Another like situation that "friend" has run into:

Say "grandpa" died and left some weapons.  As the weapons are looked through, he or she finds an old tommy gun.  It seems in working order and not much worse for the wear.  The only problem is it exceeds the federal rate of fire requirement.  What are the required steps/consequences?
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: tombogan03884 on November 14, 2009, 11:51:13 AM
 Broso, ATF DOES have a mechanism in place to deal with that, I forget the specifics but there is a way to obey the law and stay out of jail. (on the other hand, a good condition Thompson ????   ;D  )
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: seeker_two on November 14, 2009, 12:24:14 PM
Another like situation that "friend" has run into:

Say "grandpa" died and left some weapons.  As the weapons are looked through, he or she finds an old tommy gun.  It seems in working order and not much worse for the wear.  The only problem is it exceeds the federal rate of fire requirement.  What are the required steps/consequences?

Remember the concept of S3?......save/shovel/shut up.......
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: twyacht on November 14, 2009, 12:33:21 PM
Another like situation that "friend" has run into:

Say "grandpa" died and left some weapons.  As the weapons are looked through, he or she finds an old tommy gun.  It seems in working order and not much worse for the wear.  The only problem is it exceeds the federal rate of fire requirement.  What are the required steps/consequences?



No Comment,.... ;)
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: fightingquaker13 on November 14, 2009, 12:47:17 PM

No Comment,.... ;)

What Tommy gun?
FQ13 ;D
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: twyacht on November 14, 2009, 12:50:49 PM
No Comment except. Thank You and Rest In Peace Grampa!!!!
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: WatchManUSA on November 14, 2009, 01:12:55 PM
This is an example the quintessential definition of the term – The Windmilling Effect.

Here is a guy who is trying to obey the law yet found guilty of disobeying the same law he is trying to obey.
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: philw on November 14, 2009, 03:43:01 PM
This is an example the quintessential definition of the term – The Windmilling Effect.

Here is a guy who is trying to obey the law yet found guilty of disobeying the same law he is trying to obey.


messed up    that there is no common sense here and the DPP  was hell bent on taking this bloke through the courts  also shame on the jury that they did not see the common sense that this bloke was just trying to do the right thing.. 
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: CJS3 on November 14, 2009, 03:53:47 PM
Obey the law, go to jail. Now you know why England's crime rate has skyrocketed.
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: GUNS-R-US on November 14, 2009, 07:24:16 PM
from article:

"The intention of anybody possessing a firearm is irrelevant."


Remember those words my friends, a catalyst that could lead to a second Revolution, will happen when those words are enforced here.

"Quiet desperation is the English way"
Pink Floyd.

Too Late For them...  :'(

The Brits should have done that when banned them! I lived their for 7 years in the late 70 & 80's. Gun laws were rediculas then, but at least you could have them. THAT COUNTRY HAS GONE TO HELL IN A HAND BASKET! ??? :'( >:(
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: tombogan03884 on November 14, 2009, 07:43:56 PM
 Hard to believe that less than 100 years ago Maxim used to shoot machine guns in his backyard in London.
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: HAWKFISH on November 14, 2009, 09:59:29 PM
This is one of many things wrong in this country today. Seems like he tried to do a good thing. But, b/c idiots with no common sense are calling the shots, it ends bad.  :-\
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: Overload on November 14, 2009, 10:37:43 PM
Something like this DID happen here, but with a different result:

http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_13740480

"Live grenade at gun exchange
From wire reports
Posted: 11/07/2009 09:05:15 PM PST


Inglewood police collected more than 100 guns during the first hour of a Gifts for Guns exchange Saturday, but the bomb squad had to be called out when someone took in a live hand grenade to exchange for a promised $100 gift card.

Police were not expecting the grenade and because officers had promised "no questions asked," no one was charged.

Police asked residents in the future to call ahead if they have any unusual items such as hand grenades or mortars.

More information about the Gifts for Guns program is available at the Inglewood Police Department's Community Affairs Section at 310-412-5530.

- City News Service "
Title: Re: It could happen here: busted for handing-in gun
Post by: GUNS-R-US on November 15, 2009, 09:39:27 AM
Something like this DID happen here, but with a different result:

http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_13740480

"Live grenade at gun exchange
From wire reports
Posted: 11/07/2009 09:05:15 PM PST


Inglewood police collected more than 100 guns during the first hour of a Gifts for Guns exchange Saturday, but the bomb squad had to be called out when someone took in a live hand grenade to exchange for a promised $100 gift card.

Police were not expecting the grenade and because officers had promised "no questions asked," no one was charged.

Police asked residents in the future to call ahead if they have any unusual items such as hand grenades or mortars.

More information about the Gifts for Guns program is available at the Inglewood Police Department's Community Affairs Section at 310-412-5530.

- City News Service "

There was a case here in Washington a couple years ago in 04 I think, the wife of a deployed solder was stopped at the Canadian border and they found a couple live grenades :o in her mini-van. I'm not sure what the Army did to the soldier :-X, but I don't think anything happened to his wife. I know the Canadians initially released her.