The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: brosometal on November 13, 2009, 09:38:20 PM
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With all the programs that sprout up on or near Veteran's Day I came across this tidbit of info. I had questioned FQ of the origins of his moniker and he referenced a school mascot if I'm 'memberin' correctly. Well, I would like to present Smedley Butler, the original Fighting Quaker: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler)
Discuss among yourselves. This should prove to be an interesting thread.
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Smedley Butler was a VERY controversial character in his day, while he was a Marines Marine, and a true hero by any definition he was also an avowed Socialist and anti Imperialist in an age when Imperialist expansion in the form of Island coaling stations for US shipping was imperative for the nations economic well being.
He was also an out spoken old fart who referred to Capitalism as a bigger racket than Capone had going.
When asked how he felt about serving the nation His reply was "How would YOU feel knowing you spent the last 30 years as high class muscle for United Fruit"
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I thought the name was funny so I googled him. Then I saw one of his many nick-names was "fighting quaker". I just thought I would rib FQ a bit with it...
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I saw him lurking when I posted before ;D
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Butler was an intersting guy and a man of his time. He also proves that being to the left doesn't mean you can't be a patiot. The debate over Imperalism is nothing new, hell we're still having it the GOP between the Pat Buchanan/Ron Paul wing vs the Neo-cons. The elction of 1896 regarded as one of the four most important in US history was partly over this issue. Do we betray the revolution if we take colonies? Do we advance through trade and let others squander their money on a global military or do we "take up the white man's burden"? Butler was for moral and strategic reasons reluctant to take an FP position that had us overextending ourselves (in his view). He mght have been wrong, but its still something we're arguing about, even in conservative circles.
FQ13
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It's late , and I'm about to go to bed but I will point out that with out strategically placed coaling stations the US Navy would not have been capable of protecting the merchant fleet or other economic interests.
It is worth noting that when Commodore Dewey finally landed troops in Manila there were war ships from several countries at anchor waiting to gobble up the Philippines including a 5 ship fleet from Imperial Germany. Based on the conduct of the Germans in East Africa we did them a favor by declaring the Protectorate.
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It's late , and I'm about to go to bed but I will point out that with out strategically placed coaling stations the US Navy would not have been capable of protecting the merchant fleet or other economic interests.
It is worth noting that when Commodore Dewey finally landed troops in Manila there were war ships from several countries at anchor waiting to gobble up the Philippines including a 5 ship fleet from Imperial Germany. Based on the conduct of the Germans in East Africa we did them a favor by declaring the Protectorate.
I do not disagree with the need, but a defensive alliance and a 99 year lease could have done the same thing. If not, well you do what you have to. I'm not second guessing our policy. I'm just saying that Butler wasn't too far out the mainstream for his time on this issue, and even today there are a lot of folks who would agree to be found across the political spectrum from Pat Buchanan to Dennis Kucinch.
FQ13
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Today Butler would be an Obama Democrat so he is not one of my favorite historical figures. If he had not been so honest and earned 2 Congressional Medals of Honor I would put him in the same category with John Murtha. Butler could have had a political career if he had not suffered from the same foot in mouth syndrome that denied MacArthur the Presidential nomination.
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Today Butler would be an Obama Democrat so he is not one of my favorite historical figures. If he had not been so honest and earned 2 Congressional Medals of Honor I would put him in the same category with John Murtha. Butler could have had a political career if he had not suffered from the same foot in mouth syndrome that denied MacArthur the Presidential nomination.
I wonder about that, Tom. Butler was a realist. With his independent streak he mighta been more comfortable with Ron Paul or the Libertarians. Definitely not one to follow a crowd.
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As I stated before, I was watching a PBS (insert groans here) program on the Congressional Metal of Honor (CMoH) when they mentioned Smedley Butler. They touched on his political views and also mentioned the Fighting Quaker nickname. Needless to say, my interest was peaked. I looked into it a little more.
The CMoHs won were before the standards were tightened up. I say this, not to deride Butler's efforts, but for reference, and he would most definitely be a modern day Obamabot.
The thing that brought it all together, at least for me, was his alignment with the Progressive movement of the '20s. If you have caught any of Glenn Beck's shows in the last few months that should ring a few bells. With a little historical prospective, you can see the degradation of the Constitution. This was at the beginning of King Roosevelt's reign, the beginning of "gun control", the beginning of federal drug regulations, and the beginning of the mammoth growth of the federal government and nanny state.
It was just a coincidence that Smedley Bulter shared a nickname with one of our forum buddies. And if you can't give a little on-line ribbing to a buddy with buyer's remorse, what has this world come to?
P.S. FQ, There were no good choices for POTUS on the ballot last time. It was a choice of where you wanted the bullet...
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Broso, Did they mention THIS guy, who IS one of my hero's ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Daly
Sergeant Major Daniel Joseph "Dan" Daly (November 11, 1873 – April 27, 1937) was a United States Marine and one of only 19 men (and two Marines) to receive the Medal of Honor twice, the other being Major General Smedley Butler.
Dan Daly is well remembered for his famous cry during the Battle of Belleau Wood, when, besieged, outnumbered, outgunned, and pinned down, he led his men in attack, shouting, "Come on, you sons of bitches, do you want to live forever?"[1]
Daly was described by his fellow Medal of Honor double award recipient, MajGen Smedley Butler as,"The fightenist Marine I ever knew!" Daly reportedly was offered an officer's commission twice to which he responded the he would rather be, "...an outstanding sergeant than just another officer."[2]
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One thing about Butler....he did foreshadow Eisenhower's "Military-Industrial Complex" speech by a few decades.....Butler was right about how the military was being used to secure private commercial interests.....but his other views sullied that point....
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Tom,
Yes, in passing. It was an overview of the CMoH throughout its existence. For a PBS offering, it was very good. I also just finished watching Hallowed Ground also on PBS. It was an overview of our overseas military cemeteries. It was also very good.
Hallowed Ground was a distinct contrast to the present day media template of the hated Americans oversees. If given the opportunity you should watch both.
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Watched the Hallowed Ground episode, did you notice how meticulously maintained the grounds and head stones were? They are beautiful, and the Stars & Stripes flying high is very moving. The French version of the American Anthem that young schoolchildren were taught to sing after Liberation was very moving as well.
Kudos to PBS for both of those shows.
There is an entire generation over there, much like the Veterans here, that are leaving us everyday. BUT acknowledge and hold in the highest regard those American Soldiers who died on their soil. Why is it still their soil?
Because our Great Nation, with higher ideals, bravery, valor, honor, and character, KICKED THE AXIS BASTARDS OUT & GAVE IT BACK TO THEM.
The scene of the old French woman tending the headstones and laying flowers at Epinal, was to the point of tears. She was once once a young French beauty, and to her dying day will Love those American Soldiers.
The Patton Memorial in Belgium was interesting, as they moved his grave to look out over his fallen troops. The way he would have wanted it.
I hope the older citizens over there, pass it on to the next generation.
What's the phrase?
If you can read, thank a teacher.
If you can read in English, THANK A SOLDIER!
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Just a minor nit. I've done this too, but in recent years have corrected myself.
It is just the "MEDAL OF HONOR" No "congressional" adjective.
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http://www.cmohs.org/ (http://www.cmohs.org/)
:P
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(WARNING Large PDF Document)
http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/p672_6.pdf[/url]
Officially, it is THE MEDAL OF HONOR. The use of the word "congressional" is very popular but a misnomer.