The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: au_some on November 14, 2009, 06:18:58 PM
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These are the three models I am looking at and would like to know what you all would prefer for yourself
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I hate the open top slide on the Beretta and Taurus, The one I had Seemed to aim the cases at your head, real PITA.
I have heard that some people who have had them detest the Ruger trigger, measured some of the recalled ones at over 10 pounds. Pincus and MB claim to love them.
Personally I would not take any of those 3, If I wanted a 9mm I would go with a Glock.
If money were not an issue I would go with a Browning High Power.
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Hello au some, and welcome to DRTV. If those are the only three your looking at, barring price, and size, take the M9. It is used by our military and others around the world. Very reliable, durable, and proven. However, there are others that get to the top 10 very quickly.
Just food for thought. The M9 is number 4 on this list.
http://best9mm.com/
Others will have .02 cents and thoughts, the XD, M+P, CZ, FN9 (which I own and really like), Glock etc,...
Is it for daily carry, target, competition, home defense? All these can be a determining factor as well.
Thanks again for posting. Glad your here.
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Of those three I'd take the Beretta, its easy to find accessories for it and its one of the most reliable weapons I've ever seen. The only problem I have is you can't replace the sights unless you take it to a smith for some slide work and that gets expensive, thus I didn't buy it because I want night sites. Other than that its a fine 9mm.
To be honest, my personal preference is a Glock but of those three Beretta no question. The SR9 is still unproven and I haven't heard many good things in reference to Taurus outside of their revolvers.
And before I forget welcome to the forum!
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Yes, Welcome, here's one of the threads on the SR9
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=3005.80
Maybe the newer ones are better.
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BEST9MM
http://www.best9mm.com/
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I voted for the SR9 out of your choices. But I would favor the M&P9 a lot more. Or maybe the Glock G4 when it comes out next year. and the CZ's are really nice for the price. I didn't like all the sharp edges on the SR9 when I handle it. You can tear you hands to pieces working the slide. But the grip is a lot nicer than the Beretta (it's way to fat), and I wouldn't touch a Taurus seen way to many problems with them. I might conceder them for a plinking gun but not something I have to trust my life to!
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I have the Taurus 92, which is the fixed site version of the 99. It's a rock. I got it because I prefer the decocker on the frame instead of the slide.
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Yes, Welcome, here's one of the threads on the SR9
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=3005.80
Maybe the newer ones are better.
Ah, yes, .. the "pistol" that shall not be named.......
Shhhhhh......Don't let alf know.... ;)
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well to let yall in on what i want it for I do recreational gold prospecting in some remote parts and this past summer a couple of friends had a run in with a a couple of bears and a mountain lion near my claim. I am looking for a side arm to be able to carry and switch mags easily , as long as they let us be I will do the same but as we all know the nature of the beast he makes his own calls and i want to be prepared to answer that call just in case since I usually have my family with me
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couple of friends had a run in with a a couple of bears and a mountain lion near my claim.
Uh, could I talk you into a larger caliber? Something like at least a .357 or something that begins with a "4"?
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None of the above.
For bear and mountain lion, get something bigger.
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well to let yall in on what i want it for I do recreational gold prospecting in some remote parts and this past summer a couple of friends had a run in with a a couple of bears and a mountain lion near my claim. I am looking for a side arm to be able to carry and switch mags easily , as long as they let us be I will do the same but as we all know the nature of the beast he makes his own calls and i want to be prepared to answer that call just in case since I usually have my family with me
In a simi-auto you should think about something more like a 10mm Glock 20 for the four legged defense, most 9mm's would just piss a Bear off!
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+1 on the bears = larger caliber thingy
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Same as they said, the only thing a 9mm will GUARANTEE with Bears and mountain lions is that you can put yourself out of your misery while they go look for a garnish.
.357 is absolute minimum, if you want an auto loader that is a rock and will do the job go for the Glock 20 10mm under $500.
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Welcome Au_Some!
Like the others here, I strongly recommend you consider a much more substantial caliber for mountain lions and bears. Michael Bane usually carries a .44 mag revolver (Ruger I believe) for hiking on the trails in the mountains near his home.
And here is something you should consider as well, no matter which caliber/pistol you choose, can you shoot the gun accurately and rapidly with your support hand alone? If you can't do that, consider changing one of the variables = caliber/pistol.
-FullAuto
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Same as they said, the only thing a 9mm will GUARANTEE with Bears and mountain lions is that you can put yourself out of your misery while they go look for a garnish.
.357 is absolute minimum, if you want an auto loader that is a rock and will do the job go for the Glock 20 10mm under $500.
just my .02 worth, but I think the 9mm would do okay for the lions. Their fast and dangerous but not very big! Bears on the other hand have a much bigger build to them.
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(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/blackbear5.jpg)
9mm just won't cut it...Sorry.
Large caliber pistol, shotgun with slugs, or tactical buck,/ carbine/ rifle backup, with a partner(s) equally armed.
Hope you strike it rich, remember not all the "critters" around your claim may be on 4 legs.
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(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/blackbear5.jpg)
9mm just won't cut it...Sorry.
Large caliber pistol, shotgun with slugs, or tactical buck,/ carbine/ rifle backup, with a partner(s) equally armed.
Hope you strike it rich, remember not all the "critters" around your claim may be on 4 legs.
Shotguns are harder to carry than a pistol but still a very good Idea for the all around performance!!! Bear, Lion, Man good for all 8)
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I voted for SR9 based on 2 things:
1. MB and The Pincus' recommendaitons
b) I know nothing about the Taurus, the M9 Beretta is too big for my hand, so by default - SR9
Depending on use and purpose, I would go to Glock for cheap, large capacity badness, or Sig for style, elegance and just coolness. When I thought I might be working in Minneapolis (I'm not), I was looking to a Glock 17 in 9mm with the little Kel-Tec folding rifle that uses the Glock mags so I wouldn't have to worry about which mag went where. Strictly a GOOD scenario and weapons.
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Western states?
Grizzle bear....... .454, .44 Mag, S&W 500 minimum for 800 lbs of pissed off carnivore!
Personally, I'd get a guide gun carbine in .45-70....
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If they're just black bears a .44 magnum is big enough but that would be the minimum caliber for me to feel safe.
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I have the Taurus 92, which is the fixed site version of the 99. It's a rock. I got it because I prefer the decocker on the frame instead of the slide.
I have the best of both worlds
I have the PT99 in 9mm I also have a Slide of a PT92 so I can swap between fixed it adjustable sights as the Comp I shoot has different classes and to make it a Class 1 I need to have the fixes sights I do prefer to shoot it with the adjustable sight though
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(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/blackbear5.jpg)
9mm just won't cut it...Sorry.
Large caliber pistol, shotgun with slugs, or tactical buck,/ carbine/ rifle backup, with a partner(s) equally armed.
Hope you strike it rich, remember not all the "critters" around your claim may be on 4 legs.
I do agree though for Bear's I would be NEEDING something a crap load bigger
in handguns
.44Mag or a .454 Casull
Rifle a Carbine / Leaver in the in the same calibres
or a .45/70
you never want to be under gunned I personally would not use an 9mm for Bear
however for personal defence (CCW) or range shooting then yep good round
there was an attack recently
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/31/man-kills-charging-bear-with-454-casull/
Greg Brush, an Alaskan fishing guide, was ambushed with no warning by a charging bear. All he had time to do was pull out his .454 Casull and fire as fast as possible, while falling backwards after tripping on a branch. The Anchorage Daily News reports:
He drew a Ruger .454 Casull revolver. There was no time to aim, barely time to squeeze the trigger. He’s not sure whether he got off two shots or three, but one proved fatal.
“Total luck shot,” he said.
“It doesn’t get any closer. He slid by me on his chin when I shot him,” Brush said. “I was backpedaling as fast as I could. I wasn’t even aiming. I tripped over my own feet as I pulled the trigger.”
He estimated that the animal weighed 900-plus pounds, and was 15 to 20 years old. It had grass packed in its molars and little fat on its bones.
“It was starving to death and saw an opportunity,” Brush said.
I sometimes get asked what should be carried in bear country. I always say the same thing: “I know nothing about bears but if I was in bear country I would want a .44 Magnum by my side”. I despair when people say they would rather carry their 9mm or .40 S&W Glock because they can get off more shots! This story perfectly illustrates that you may only get off one or two shots at a charging 900 pound beast! A 9mm round is not going to do much good.
Tom Gresham has an interview (http://guntalk.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=518137) with Greg on his Gun Talk show.
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I selected the M9 but I'm biased in that regard as I have over 20+ years shooting one for the Army (issued a rifle and pistol every time) and have about 30,000 rds easy through them. Can easly hit 100m in DA mode and was working on my Distungished Pistol Badge when I retired. Did carry the M9 in Africa couple of times for protection agaiinst Leopard, Loin, Hyennas, Baboons,etc (also had a M14, only other choice was a M4 carbine). Learned to carry it concealed as I purchased my own Beretta 92. The Taurus is built on old Beretta machinery sold after their Brazilian military contract was completed. Early 92s had a frame mounted safety and mag release was on the butt of the gun. No experince with the Ruger. Of the 3 parts, mags and assesories are easier to come by for the Beretta.
There is one story of an Alaskian fisherman killing a large brown bear in a stream after an attack with a Taurus 9mm. His buddy had a slung 12ga with slugs was the one immediately attack and went under as the bear charged. Shooter shot the bear many times with 9mm ball and killed the bear before it could injury the other fisherman. This was several years ago. I would think that the attack of bears and mountian lions to be minimal compared to the larger threat of 2 legged vermin. I would also prefer a large frame Smith starting with .41 Mag on up (seems there is a M58 in the safe ;D)
CD
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In one of the spookiest blog posts he ever wrote, MB described being awakened by a mountain lion's cough at 2AM. So what does this gun guy do? Grab his Sig P226 in 9mm - his bedside gun. Better than nothing I guess.
Don Worsham got quote of the day when he said something like "Sig P226 against a mountain lion? You're a braver man than I am" - or something like that. ;D
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I went with the SR9..but only with tht $20 connector from Ghost that brings it down to 5-6 lb trigger. I loved the one I had but no so much after the trigger upgrade so I gave it to someone who needed a weapon (returning Iraq vet) as his choice between the SR9 and a CZ 75. I told him about the trigger so...don't jump on me he picked it out and his use is strictly closse in defense.
I have been waiting for a good trigger so I'm going to treat myself to an SR9 and a connector for Christmas...I have the 5 Shot leather IWB waiting on it. It's thin, light and reliable and I really like the safety on the SR9. I put 1,200-1,500 rounds through it with nary...nary...a failure with any ammo I fed it.
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Should add none of the above to the survey.
The M-9 is a decent side arm but too big for concealed carry for someone my size.
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I am going to respectfully state this, there are much better guns for your choosing for the price range of the 3 guns.
But a Beretta Centurion served me well for personal carry for many years.
tex
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Seems like there are two questions...one- what kind of 9mm do you prefer, and "None of the above" should have been provided with those choices. Second- what to carry if you're concerned about large animals. Again...none of the above. If there are free roaming apex predators in your future you want minimum 45 LC, but you'd be better off with 44 mag, etc. like so many have stated here. These would also work on the two legged predators.
On the 9mm question, the Beretta is a tried and true gun, and a good gun. It may not be everyone's preference, but it's a good choice. The Taurus is a copy of that Beretta. Why buy the copy when you can have the real thing? Also, I have had personal experience with a Taurus that is just not 100% reliable. Third choice, Ruger SR9. I have strong opinions about that particular model which I won't rant about. Suffice it to say I don't see it as a great choice, as evidenced by what they're selling for these days. Nobody is talking about the SR9 anymore.
I have had excellent personal experiences with the M&P9, Sig Pro 2022, and Glock 26.
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Glock 20 10mm.
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I'd choose the one that fires the .45 ACP bullets. ;D
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I'm late to this thread, but I think the gist is this. Mount the caliber to the job. Human SD, 9mm is fine (I'd still go Glock, SiG or M@P in that order before your choices), but go Berretta of the ones you listed. For bears and lions, 10mm is the only semi I'd look at and the G-20 is reliable and the same price as the Berretta ($500-$550 give or take). Personally I'd just go .44 mag or or .454 Casull which which will let you down load to .44 special or .45 Colt for SD or practice in a wheelgun.
FQ13
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I'm late to this thread, but I think the gist is this. Mount the caliber to the job. Human SD, 9mm is fine (I'd still go Glock, SiG or M@P in that order before your choices), but go Berretta of the ones you listed. For bears and lions, 10mm is the only semi I'd look at and the G-20 is reliable and the same price as the Berretta ($500-$550 give or take). Personally I'd just go .44 mag or or .454 Casull which which will let you down load to .44 special or .45 Colt for SD or practice in a wheelgun.
FQ13
Local gun shop has had a Glock 20 for almost a year now, price is down to $375.
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Local gun shop has had a Glock 20 for almost a year now, price is down to $375.
I may need to make a trip to NH...
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walk in and offer them $250.... you will probably be walking out with a Glock 20 ;)
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I may need to make a trip to NH...
I'VE ALWAYS WANTED TO CHECK OUT THE NORTHEAST!! ;D
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walk in and offer them $250.... you will probably be walking out with a Glock 20 ;)
That's not a bad Idea. ;D
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I have owned a Taurus 92af since 1996 and I have used it for a duty weapon since 2004 and I have had zero problems. It is the luck of the draw when buying a gun just like a car. You can buy a lemon or you could buy a great one. I was on the range last week and my Taurus had zero problems. One guy had a M & P and his done great. Had a springfield XD and it done great too. The range instructor had two glock sub compacts and the crapped their guts out. He had four malfunctions with the first one and put it up and the second one had two. He blamed it on the ammo. I own a glock 26 and had zero malfunctions. But any of the guns you are looking at are fine. The key to a gun fight is to bring a gun to the gun fight.
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I chose the M9, but would also wouldn't mind if somebody "forced" an SR9 on me... ;)
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Thankfully, gun manufacturers are "getting it", although some slower than others, but there is a wide variety of "good/great" 9mm's out there.
Everyone has their opinion, and chose a pistol for grip, # of rounds, price, etc,....
XD, Glock, M+P, Sig, Taurus, Para, etc,... (my beloved FN9 ;) ), are all well suited for years of use.
For the OP which mentioned "frontier" country, OK,...if that is your choice so be it. All I can add is practice ALOT. A large 4 legged animal, let alone those of a two legged variety will need to be dealt with many rounds.
You will need hits. Especially a bear. Where at least a 12g pump action or rifle should be just about mandatory.
Would I go into the Great White North with a 9mm? ....... No. but if that was my only option, than top shelf ammo, with many pre loaded mags, and many range trips and instruction to boot will be helpful.
Even that super bear pepper spray in the can would be in my bag also.
and a rifle, and a 12g, and a 45Colt,....
;D
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None of the above would be my choice.
I have experience with SIG 226 and SIG 225 or P6, Browning High Power, and 2 Walther P1s, aka P38. All are good depending on your mission requirements. If the 9mm is OK.
Regretfully I no longer have the Browning which was one of the best and most accurate pistols I ever had. I had to sell my first P1 to raise money for something. I think it was better than the one I just bought a couple of years ago, but I still like the new one.
The advantage to the 9mm is the ammo is cheaper and the new bullets are pretty good. But the new bullets are good in a .357SIG, .40 or .45 as well.
If you are stuck on one of those three, go with the M9. BTW I did not vote as there was no none of the above choice and I have no experience with any of those three.
Let us know what you do. And, good luck.
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Beretta 92 parts can be easily obtained versus the parts for a Taurus even though they are nearly identical... nearly... Personally I still prefer the M&P. I would even take one in 9mm just to have one. I love my M&P40 and have every intention on getting a M&P40c or yet another fullsize just to have a backup. It has proven itself for me for nearly 3 years and this is an original release not one that has been revised. Of course I just sent it to be revised for the sake of free!
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My most accurate 9mm is my Walther P-99. It's the first generation model and I can get the hits a lot better with it than I can with my Glock 19.
The only downside is the cost of magazines.
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Just thinking aloud, if I could only have one 9mm, it would be a Browning Hi-Power rebuilt by Wayne Novak. Period. Big ole explanation mark. Of the guns listed, I never liked the Beretta/Taurus 92-styled 9mms...too fat grips for my girly hands, so I'd take the SR9...as soon as I can get a Ghost Rocket trigger bar for the SR9, I'll get one quick like bunny. and the new XS Sites that Pincus hates.
For carrying in the Great Frozen North, .44 Magnum all the way. Heavy bullet heavy loads in bear country. Even in Colorado, I carry a stoked up .44 Magnum in the spring and fall, when the bears are testy.
Michael B
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Michael, is that testy or Tasty ? ;D
And I agree on the Browning HiPower, It's the only 9mm I own...(other than an Old Model Blackhawk convertible with a 9mm cylinder)
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Sig 226. 'Nuff said.
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I would add an FNP9 to my list the last time I posted. It is a nice pistol.
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I have been waiting for a good trigger so I'm going to treat myself to an SR9 and a connector for Christmas...I have the 5 Shot leather IWB waiting on it. It's thin, light and reliable and I really like the safety on the SR9. I put 1,200-1,500 rounds through it with nary...nary...a failure with any ammo I fed it.
Well, I backed up the post and picked up a new one...black slide. Now waiting to order the trigger connector from Ghost which they say by email should be available very soon.
Rereading the post, couple of points. Everyone can agree that you need a big bore for bear. I've a friend who calls in mountain lion and he says lions drop easy so on his advice the 9MM would be just fine. Lion may call for a quick surprise shot and you may be better off with the 9MM (of 5.7x28) to get hits on target quicker...not that a bear isn't quick but they are more noticeable and it is likely you would have more notice in general for a bear. For bear..you need something big to be effective. I like the 10MM solution as a single weapon to try to do it all.