The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: pequin06 on November 17, 2009, 09:07:03 AM
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I know the .22lr or .380 are not really the stoppers one would want for self defense, but I was curious if those were the only choices one had (Yes, those are the only choices, have to pick one of those), which one would you choose?
I'm looking for a cheap, drop in a shirt pocket type of gun.
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Definitely the .380 ! In a shirt pocket size pistol your only hope of stopping an attacker with a 22 is to kill him. and the areas where that light a bullet out of that short a barrel will assure penetration are very small. Professionals like Mossad use the .22 for murders, not self defense.
With a .380 at least a BG will realize he is being shot at. even if you don't inflict major damage , and the objective is to STOP the attack, not necessarily to kill the BG.
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Definitely the .380 !
That says it all. .380 is a monster compared to 22lr. You are talking about approx 160-180 ft lbs of energy with .380 vs a max of about 70 ft lbs with 22lr. And expansion up to .645 vs a .22 that will give little to no expansion.
The cheap drop in the pocket .380 that you are looking for is the Kel-Tec. It can be had for about $250-$300 new, and with a Nemisis pocket holster they really feel about the same as a cell phone in your pocket.
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/p3at.htm
The ammo you want to use is the DPX by CorBon. It is about the best expanding hollow point out right now for the .380:
(http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/380acp/xcb-dpx.jpg)
More .380 gel tests here:
http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/380acp/gel380acp.htm
.22 gel tests here:
http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/22lr/gel22lr.htm
Enjoy!
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Ha, ha, ha, haaaa! ;D
The Bobcat say's to it's prey,
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1010280.jpg?t=1258472728)
Shop around for ammo before you decide! ;)
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http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=25187
On sale now! (the hidden price is $265).
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http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=25187
On sale now! (the hidden price is $265).
Larger, heavier, and more expensive then the Kel-Tec. $259:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/150/products_id/46621
;)
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Before you pay attention to Badgersmilk's advice read this thread
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=5692.0
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Before you pay attention to Badgersmilk's advice read this thread
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=5692.0
Let the record show, that I did not bring it up...... trying to take the high road here.
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Let the record show, that I did not bring it up...... trying to take the high road here.
What high road ? BM is giving advice to this guy that could get him killed when he needs a REAL defensive gun.
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;D ;D ;D
I was looking for it myself!
May wanna do an internet search for "kel-tek KABOOM" while looking as well. ;D ;D ;D
The Ruger LCP is looks really nice if you choose .380. Just find some ammo FIRST! (you'll pay more for it than most any caliber if you somehow find one box).
This forum would be so booring if it weren't for hammer heads! ;D
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What high road ? BM is giving advice to this guy that could get him killed when he needs a REAL defensive gun.
I think I supplied all the necessary info in my original post and did not have to throw Badger under the bus (no roadkill jokes please).
*That was a fun re-read though, Tom. Thanx. ;D
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The gun would not be my primary.
I do have other guns and I'm firm believer in the big guns leave big holes, but I'll be honest in that I don't think I would want to get shot with a .22lr or .380 either.
Maybe I should buy both??? :D Never have too many guns.
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The gun would not be my primary.
I do have other guns and I'm firm believer in the big guns leave big holes, but I'll be honest in that I don't think I would want to get shot with a .22lr or .380 either.
Maybe I should buy both??? :D Never have too many guns.
BRILLIANT!!!
Post pics! ;)
"throw Badger under the bus" -- Was actually a pretty good one. ;D
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I'll be honest in that I don't think I would want to get shot with a .22lr or .380 either.
I would not volunteer to get stabbed with a small pocket knife, but I would hate to have my life depend on it vs a determined attacker either.
Maybe I should buy both??? :D Never have too many guns.
Great, now can you please close the thread before it gets ugly in here.
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;D ;D ;D
I was looking for it myself!
May wanna do an internet search for "kel-tek KABOOM" while looking as well. ;D ;D ;D
The Ruger LCP is looks really nice if you choose .380. Just find some ammo FIRST! (you'll pay more for it than most any caliber if you somehow find one box).
This forum would be so booring if it weren't for hammer heads! ;D
And "creative spelling.
Hey Eric, when is that bus due anyway ? ::)
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Hey Eric, when is that bus due anyway ? ::)
I'm trying to take the high road, Tom.
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Go ahead. You may get to Killarny before me, but I'll have more fun ;D
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For defense, I'd choose the one with the bigger bullet. .380.
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.380. Then get a solderin' iron and solder on a .22 for more grain weight.
WA LAH! the best of both worlds! ;D
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if you can handle the 380 recoil in a small gun, go with 380, if not go 22 and the heavyest bullet the gun will cycle.
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Before you pay attention to Badgersmilk's advice read this thread
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=5692.0
I thought you were going to refer to the "1 in 3 is an idiot" thread. ;D
A .22 is only good as a backup to a backup gun. At least get a .22 magnum and not a .22lr.
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Just a leetle helpful hint should you get an LCP. I own one, and did some 'informal situational stress tests' on it. To whit, left it in my desk for three months w/o re-oiling it and then took it shooting.
Make sure you keep it well lubed, or you'll get what I got - binding up like a guy on a cement diet. ;D
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Really? At least one of those 22WMR pocket revolvers.....
But seriously, although ammo is sporadic, but around and pricey, the .380 is the way to go. My Walther PPK, and Kel-Tec, WILL do the job if you have practice, training, practice, training.
So will the the little 22WMR, really wouldn't consider the 22lr for SD, unless it's the last of the last resort.
Cor-Bon DPX are great for the .380, as well as the Speer Gold Dot. & Golden Sabre, although the price sucks. It's a great SD round.
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The current price of .380 ammo will rectify itself within 6 months. So, if you are in it for the long run - or at least more then 6 months -- its not something that should be of any influence to the decision making process.
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unless you can consistently double tap to the mouth every time, i would go with the .38
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A .22 is a face gun. Shove it in the BGs face and empty it. Then you have to deal with the prosecutor who wants to know why you did that.
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A couple things that people often don't think about with itty bitty autos are one (weak) hand operation and slide operation/lockup when in contact range.
The 380 definitely has better ballistics, but there may be another issue to sway you to the 22.
Is this a BUG only, or do you want to carry snake shot in the woods or other dual-use?
Do you have a particular location to conceal it?
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If anyone is looking for a butt ugly .22 for SD............... here it is!
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=442244
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That makes me want to spray paint my .22 mag. ::)
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check out the bersa thunder 380,damn nice little gun,bought the wife one,pretty accurate and goes bang everytime.i was impressed with the fit and finish also.
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Every comment I have seen or heard about the Bersa Thunder has been favorable.
That tells me that either the pistol is worth its price or any one who complains gets locked up with "Crazy Joe" Biden. ;D
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Nobody likes to admit they made a mistake. Especially one that they spent hundreds of $'s on and now have to live with. But it's very disapointing when opinions are limited to what people have already spent money on.
Just saying.
::)
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Nobody likes to admit they made a mistake. Especially one that they spent hundreds of $'s on and now have to live with. But it's very disapointing when opinions are limited to what people have already spent money on.
Just saying.
::)
That may be true on other forums you've been to but I know from experience that the folks here are more than willing to scream bloody murder when they feel they've been hosed.
Could you please explain how we would get unbiased user reviews of guns we haven't bought ?
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It wasn't your comment, or even this particular thead. But, just walking into a new crowd here, I see a good amount of owner bias. Not everything said. But a good amount. :-\
Some of the opinions are very original and thought provoking when not stepped on by another pride.
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Truchas,
I think you will find that here we call a shovel a $%&# spade! ;)
I have posted (many times) of what a POS the Sig Mosquito is (though it MIGHT finally be working out). Others have posted on guns made by the sponsors of this site. We tend to be real here.
WELCOME
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It wasn't your comment, or even this particular thead. But, just walking into a new crowd here, I see a good amount of owner bias. Not everything said. But a good amount. :-\
Some of the opinions are very original and thought provoking when not stepped on by another pride.
Sorry if I came across as jumping down your throat, I didn't mean it that way. I don't pay any attention to "Paid" endorsements, like magazine articles, I wait for people who have bought them to comment. If they brag about getting it, then never mention it again, I suspect that they were less than pleased with it ;D
I bet some of the owner bias you refer to involves Glocks ;D.
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Truchas,
I think you will find that here we call a shovel a $%&# spade! ;)
I have posted (many times) of what a POS the Sig Mosquito is (though it MIGHT finally be working out). Others have posted on guns made by the sponsors of this site. We tend to be real here.
WELCOME
BTW Haz, I have been meaning to ask you.... have you used mini mags or CCI stingers in that Mosquito..... I have heard that only the hot .22s will work in it, but with the hot loads it will run reliably?
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I bet some of the owner bias you refer to involves Glocks ;D.
And rightfully so! ;)
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BTW Haz, I have been meaning to ask you.... have you used mini mags or CCI stingers in that Mosquito..... I have heard that only the hot .22s will work in it, but with the hot loads it will run reliably?
That's what Brosometal says he using in his. (MiniMags )
And rightfully so! ;)
Yes, like that ;D
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E,
I have tried them all. Both before and after having it worked over at the factory.
The slide is now like a race gun. Smooth as butter. Last time out it did run MUCH better and it was with bulk type ammo (Remington). So it has my interest again and next time I go I'll run it some more and keep y'all up to date on it.
Bottom line though, is it had to go back and I now have 3 or 4,000 rounds since the rework and it is only now starting to run.
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Yes, like that ;D
I'm not biased because they pay me or b/c I'm a Glock Ninja or anything like that...... It comes from my own personal experience with the guns and the extreme reliability that I have witnessed -- for a personal defense gun, reliability is #1 on my list of criteria.
Death, Taxes, and Glocks will go bang every single time!
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How many Magazines do you have for it ? Could that be the problem ?
Just a thought, because the BuckMark I had ran great but I bought a replacement mag for it (supposedly factory ) and had many failures to feed only with that mag.
I'm not biased because they pay me or b/c I'm a Glock Ninja or anything like that...... It comes from my own personal experience with the guns and the extreme reliability that I have witnessed -- for a personal defense gun, reliability is #1 on my list of criteria.
Death, Taxes, and Glocks will go bang every single time!
Just busting your chops Eric. If I were going to buy a Double action Semi Auto it would be a Glock.
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E,
I have tried them all. Both before and after having it worked over at the factory.
The slide is now like a race gun. Smooth as butter. Last time out it did run MUCH better and it was with bulk type ammo (Remington). So it has my interest again and next time I go I'll run it some more and keep y'all up to date on it.
Bottom line though, is it had to go back and I now have 3 or 4,000 rounds since the rework and it is only now starting to run.
My offer still stands............... $50 shipped! ;)
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How many Magazines do you have for it ? Could that be the problem ?
Just a thought, because the BuckMark I had ran great but I bought a replacement mag for it (supposedly factory ) and had many failures to feed only with that mag.
Just the one original that came with it. It is also the one they used for testing when I sent it back.