The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: ericire12 on November 17, 2009, 09:52:28 AM
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http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2009/11/16/adoptive_parents_fuming_over_gun_question.html
TALLAHASSEE - Get set for a mountain of paperwork if you want to adopt a child.
You'll have to go through a rigorous screening process.
It's aimed at giving kids the best parents possible.
Florida's gun rights advocates say it's gotten way too personal.
Ron And Fran Fahs went through stacks of paperwork and hours of interviews to make this a complete picture.
One of the questions many parents have to answer: Do you own a gun?
The Fahs aren't necessarily gun supporters, but they do think the question goes too far.
"Let's just stay with responsible parenting and issues that are involved in that, and not get down to specifics like, 'do you have sharp nails in the house', or, you know, "are your knives all put up above children's reach," the Fahs said.
The issue's got the adoption agencies staring down the barrel of a powerful political weapon, the National Rifle Association.
The group's already pulled the trigger on what could be a potent debate here at the capitol.
Marion Hammer heads the Florida chapter of the NRA pushing for a law.
"This is almost a profiling of adoptive parents," Hammer said. "They don't want to be profiled, they don't want to be treated differently because they choose to exercise a constitutional right."
The Fahs say they agree with the NRA and support the passage of a law banning the gun question.
"Plenty of people have guns, are responsible about how they store them, and those type of things, so i wouldn't want it to be a take-or-break type of issue," Ron Fahs said.
Making it easier for gun owners to become parents...well, that's well within the *scope* of compromise.
At least one of the adoption agencies, the Children's Home Society, tells us they've temporarily stopped asking about gun ownership.
An agency spokesperson says they're waiting on clarification from the department of children and families about whether the question is legal.
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Right. We all know if someone owns any kind of "GUN" they aren't good roll models and could never be acceptable parents. They couldn't ever be law abiding citizens. WHAT KIND OF CRAP IS THIS??? ???
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Right. We all know if someone owns any kind of "GUN" they aren't good roll models and could never be acceptable parents. They couldn't ever be law abiding citizens. WHAT KINF OF CRAP IS THIS??? ???
Yep, but ask the question "Are you gay" and the ACLU will file a lawsuit faster then Quaker can pull the lever for Obama on election day. (No thread drifts, please).
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Another click
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While I agree with asking if they have a gun and is it stored in a safe manor. it should go no further then that.
I'd also ask Qs like, do you own any power tools, chemicals, etc, etc...
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While I agree with asking if they have a gun and is it stored in a safe manor. it should go no further then that.
I'd also ask Qs like, do you own any power tools, chemicals, etc, etc...
TAB, do you understand just how far beyond the pale you are with comments like that? It's like the ATF form that asks if I am an illegal alien - absolutely pointless other than to be able to add "lying on an official form" to a list of charges.
This organization has no right or authority to ask this question. None. At all! They have no more right or authority to ask this than if they were to ask if I had sex in any other position than missionary, what church I go to and why, which newspaper I read, or which party I voted for in the last election.
Besides, If I'm law-abiding and my weapons are stored safely, then answering it truthfully puts me in a position of being denied for exercising a well-known right. If I'm illegally possessing a gun - guess what - I lie!
Would it be OK if your kid's pediatrician asked little Johnny or Susie if Daddy kept bad evil guns at home? Seriously?
One last thing - it will not keep anyone safer. Most of the murders in the Chicagoland area where a foster child or adoptee were involved involved knives or the ever so popular beatings, scaldings, and in at least one case - hanging by a curtain rod cord - intentionally!
Camel's nose in the tent and all that.
Here's a simple rule - just say no to any gun-grabber notion, idea, proposal or action. Just say no. We'll help you figure out why here on DRTV after you say No!
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so its ok to send a troubled kid into a house where guns are laying all over the place? having had my 12 year old niece live with me for several years after she was violently sexually abused, if she had gotton hold of one of my guns, she would have used it to kill herself. she tired several times, with other house hold items. luckly none of them where dangerous. The chances of surving a sucide attempt with a firearm are extremly low.
so yes it is a very valid Q.
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so its ok to send a troubled kid into a house where guns are laying all over the place? having had my 12 year old niece live with me for several years after she was violently sexually abused, if she had gotton hold of one of my guns, she would have used it to kill herself. she tired several times, with other house hold items. luckly none of them where dangerous. The chances of surving a sucide attempt with a firearm are extremly low.
so yes it is a very valid Q.
However, its all about the context...... As you point out they dont ask questions like do you have power tools, chemicals, matches, second story windows, etc. They only ask if you own a gun -- Hell, they dont even ask if it is even kept in the house let alone if it is secured.
The fact that they feel the need to go down this road shows that they either are ignorant as hell and believe that guns are the root of all evil or they have an anti gun agenda that they are trying to push because they believe that guns are the root of all evil.
Its just not an effective question to screen out bad applicants.
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Asking if its properly stored, would be a CYA q.
I went a few rounds with the social workers... more then once, I backed them into a corner about policy vs law. I don't play games. after the 1st "inspection", I cut the crap and went strait to the top. The lady would not pass me as I did not have a CO detector( policy, not law) I was all electric and didn't have a fire place. so there was no need to have one. kind of funny the day after a short blurb on the local news station about my case, I got a phone call saying I was approved and I had a new social worker.
I don't play games. ;D
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While I agree with asking if they have a gun and is it stored in a safe manor. it should go no further then that.
I call BS on your comment!
It is none of their damn business if you are exercising your Constitutionally guaranteed Rights!
Any couple that can't keep their fly zipped and skirt hem down can breed all they want no questions or conditions. A couple that wants to take in a homeless child is treated like a criminal. F*** em all!
We've been through the process, and the only thing I can think of that is worse is going through fertility testing.
This is nothing more than an attempt to infringe on the rights of citizens, and it needs to be tossed with last weeks fish!
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I call BS on your comment!
It is none of their damn business if you are exercising your Constitutionally guaranteed Rights!
Any couple that can't keep their fly zipped and skirt hem down can breed all they want no questions or conditions. A couple that wants to take in a homeless child is treated like a criminal. F*** em all!
We've been through the process, and the only thing I can think of that is worse is going through fertility testing.
This is nothing more than an attempt to infringe on the rights of citizens, and it needs to be tossed with last weeks fish!
Amen!!!
Now...........how do you REALLY feel?
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Simple Reply:
My Constitutional Right, is not relevant to this screening. Criminal check fine, financial check, dandy. references, church, co-workers, great.
Question for them:
Does exercising my Constitutional Rights "limit" my qualifications, is all other criteria is met?
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Been through it. It feels like an interview from the IRS. Any wrong answer and you are done, all money forfeited. Actually, it is an AWFUL lot like MB's NYC pistol permit story...
There all ALL SORTS of "child safety" questions and inspections--chemicals, power tools, kitchen knives, open water, dogs, busy roads, and those are just what I remember off the top of my head. Also had to prove you had a fire evac plan, emergency numbers (fire, police, and poison control) posted next to the phone, and a few other things. Guns in a safe, ammo in a separate lockbox, child locks on any drawer/cabinet with kinves, chemicals locked up, have you ever had an issue with any dog, locked gates and fences if close to a busy road or water. Our pond was 2 yards too close (98 yds) to the house, had to fence it in.
Anyone that thinks adoption is easy really doesn't have a clue.
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UPDATE: DCF drops guns from adoption process
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/dec/22/na-dcf-drops-guns-from-adoption-process/
TAMPA - The state Department of Children & Families will no longer document whether prospective foster parents own a gun.
According to a Dec. 2 memorandum, DCF officials will discuss gun safety but won't ask or document whether prospective parents have guns. Prospective parents must sign forms saying they're aware that Florida law requires people with loaded firearms keep them in a locked, secure place away from children.
The clarification came as the result of a conversation between a prospective parent and an employee with one of the providers DCF works with for adoption home studies, said Alan Abramowitz, state director for DCF's family safety program office. The employee asked a question listed on a form regarding guns and ammunition, and the prospective parent refused to provide the information.
The National Rifle Association also received a copy of the form.
"There were a number of families who were offended by the way this was being done and requiring them to register their gun and ammunition with an agency and on condition of being denied the ability to adopt a child," said Marion Hammer, a Tallahassee lobbyist and former National Rifle Association president.
"So legislation has been filed to prohibit the kind of activity specifically that has been going on that violates state gun laws, that violates your privacy rights. As a result, adoption agencies and DCF have altered their policies to conform to state law and constitutional rights, something they should have done all along. ... To suggest that families that own firearms - a constitutional right - are not suitable for adoption is ridiculous."
DCF agrees.
"Just because you own a firearm, that should not be a determining factor," Abramowitz said. "I'm not aware of any case that a person was turned down because they were a lawful gun owner."
Moreover, he said, DCF cannot legally deny an adoption simply because a person is a lawful gun owner.
DCF's general counsel researched the concerns and determined that prospective parents' gun ownership should not be documented.
Bills filed this year by state Sen. Thad Altman, R-Melbourne, and state Rep. Mike Horner, R-Kissimmee, seek to prohibit adoption agencies from considering whether a person's lawful possession of a firearm impacts their suitability to adopt.
Abramowitz said the bills merely clarify existing law.
"The law is clear," he said. "It says the department or providers cannot document lawful gun ownership, or it's a third-degree felony. It's a crime."
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I call BS on your comment!
It is none of their damn business if you are exercising your Constitutionally guaranteed Rights!
Any couple that can't keep their fly zipped and skirt hem down can breed all they want no questions or conditions. A couple that wants to take in a homeless child is treated like a criminal. F*** em all!
We've been through the process, and the only thing I can think of that is worse is going through fertility testing.
This is nothing more than an attempt to infringe on the rights of citizens, and it needs to be tossed with last weeks fish!
I agree. This kind of crap is getting totally out of hand. How many adopted babies die from accidental gunfire? I'll go way out on a limb and say it's a grand total of NONE! This is nothing more than an intrusion and violation of our rights. And for what it's worth if I were put into that position I would lie like a rug. My first and only thought would be just like any job interview, "What does this guy want to hear?" Bill T.
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More kids will die from water in your house this year than guns.
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More kids will die from water in your house this year than guns.
More children drown in family backyard pools than from gun accidents, especially here in the Phoenix metro area in the Summer time. We lose several per year. Bill T.
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Why yes, I DO have the means to protect a child from harm inflicted by society's predators.
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sooooooooo Path~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~??
Do you have sex in any other position than missionary?? ?? ?? ??
Hey~~~(http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/erst060.gif) you brought it up~~~~
:-[~~sorry~~~~ I just couldn't help myself....
(http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/daz.gif)
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sooooooooo Path~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~??
Do you have sex in any other position than missionary?? ?? ?? ??
Hey~~~(http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/erst060.gif) you brought it up~~~~
:-[~~sorry~~~~ I just couldn't help myself....
(http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/daz.gif)
DAM YOU A Keyboard warning would of been good
Phil now needs to clean the beer of the Laptop that he spat out laughing
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sooooooooo Path~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~??
Do you have sex in any other position than missionary?? ?? ?? ??
Hey~~~(http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/erst060.gif) you brought it up~~~~
:-[~~sorry~~~~ I just couldn't help myself....
(http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/daz.gif)
WTF. Wait a minute here my wife said that cowboy was the only position. Well its my turn to use the spurs.
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Mrs. T and I have been married so long that we're limited mostly to hallway sex.