The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: ericire12 on November 20, 2009, 03:58:35 PM
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I present you the Kel-Tec PMR 30
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/downloads/SHOT2010_pmr30.jpg
(http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/downloads/SHOT2010_pmr30.jpg)
(http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/34770-2/PMR30_locked_back_8294.jpg)
(http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/34761-2/PMR30_8297.jpg)
Expected Availability: Quarter 2, 2010
Expected MSRP: $415
Caliber: .22 Magnum (.22WMR)
Barrel length 4.3”
Length: 7.9”
Height: 5.8”
Grip Width: 1.1”
Max width, across safety levers: 1.3”
Magazine capacity: 30 rounds
Trigger pull: 3.5 to 5 lbs
Weight (no mag): 13.6 oz.
Muzzle Velocity (40 gr): 1230 fps = 134 ft/lbs energy
PDF with more info here:
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/downloads/SHOT2010_preview_keltec_PMR-30.pdf
The PMR-30 is a light weight, full size pistol chambered for the flat-shooting
.22Magnum cartridge (.22WMR). The PMR-30 operates on a unique hybrid
blowback/locked-breech system. This operation system allows for the use of a wide
variety of ammunition as it seamlessly adjusts between locked breach and blowback
operation, depending on the pressure of the cartridge. It uses a double stack magazine of
a new design that holds 30 rounds and fits completely in the grip of the pistol.
The trigger is a crisp single action with an over-travel stop. The manual safety is a thumb
activated ambidextrous safety lever (up for SAFE, down for FIRE). The slide locks back
after the last shot and a manual slide lock lever is also provided. The light, crisp trigger
pull and fiber optic sights make the PMR-30 ideal for target shooting and hunting small
game.
Slide and barrel are 4140 steel, frame is 7075 aluminum. Grip, slide cover, trigger, mag
release, and safety levers are glass reinforced Nylon (Zytel), much like other Kel-Tec
Pistols. Magazine is Also Zytel and holds 30 rounds, with round count ports.
Other features include: dual opposing extractors for reliability, heel magazine release to
aid in magazine retention, dovetailed aluminum front sight, Picatinny accessory rail
under the barrel, Urethane recoil buffer, captive coaxial recoil springs. The barrel is
fluted for light weight and effective heat dissipation. PMR30 disassembles for cleaning
by removal of a single pin.
More photos here:
http://olegvolk.net/gallery/technology/arms/keltec/
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Half again as many rounds as the FN 5-7, More common ammo, and $500 less than the FN.
A little payback for Ruger cloning the P3AT ?
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Notice it has a fluted barrel.
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Damn, I was expecting Kel-Tec to announce a Ruger LCP clone . . . . . . . ;)
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Notice it has a fluted barrel.
Now if came with a THREADED barrel....
RASTUS....I need a can for this!
;D
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I'd be more interested in a 10 round magazine for my P3AT.
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It looks better than the Grendel P30 which was also a 30 shot .22 WMR.
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Can't wait for the FN 5.7 and Kel-Tec .22Mag comparison threads to start...
Maybe we'll finally see a .22 Magnum Defensive pistol load designed to get maximum performance from a short barrel. I've wanted one for my NAA Black Widow for years. Every year at SHOT I explain the niche to ammo company executives while they smile and nod and tell me not to hold my breath.
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Now THAT looks like fun!
Time to start saving. ;D
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It looks better than the Grendel P30 which was also a 30 shot .22 WMR.
Considering that Kel-Tec used to be Grendel....I'm kinda jazzed that this is coming out. I'll add it to my WANT list.... 8)
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Damn, I was expecting Kel-Tec to announce a Ruger LCP clone . . . . . . . ;)
Now thats funny right there!
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C'mon guys! Wouldn't this be great in .30 Carbine? No, really...really really...really really really...
Michael B
PS...if it was in .22 LR and had a threaded barrel...heck yeah!
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http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/
The Man took the pictures.
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This is a good idea.
The .22 MAG is a bad little boy. With 20 of these mean screamers at hand this would be a real life saver.
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A couple things. One, neat idea, sounds like a fun little field gun. Two, gross dirty Euro mag release! I am glad that Kel Tec is well off enough to go after these fun ideas. I've got a back in the day Grendel P10 with a broke in half firing pin that I can't replace, I hope they make them better these days.
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A couple things. One, neat idea, sounds like a fun little field gun. Two, gross dirty Euro mag release! I am glad that Kel Tec is well off enough to go after these fun ideas. I've got a back in the day Grendel P10 with a broke in half firing pin that I can't replace, I hope they make them better these days.
If you still have the original a decent machinist can duplicate it. I'd have him make at least 2.
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Dang, that's cool. Somebody have some easy terminal ballistics on .22mag to post up?
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http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page1504.htm
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Dang, that's cool. Somebody have some easy terminal ballistics on .22mag to post up?
With that barrel length you will get this:
Muzzle Velocity (40 gr): 1230 fps = 134 ft/lbs energy
*BTW The Five-seveN will give you 358 ft-lbs
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C'mon guys! Wouldn't this be great in .30 Carbine? No, really...really really...really really really...
Michael B
PS...if it was in .22 LR and had a threaded barrel...heck yeah!
30 carbine semi-auto handgun at a reasonable price....heck yeah!
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C'mon guys! Wouldn't this be great in .30 Carbine? No, really...really really...really really really...
Michael B
PS...if it was in .22 LR and had a threaded barrel...heck yeah!
I'm with you on this Mike a .22LR would be the ticket, cheap ammo and 30 rd mag! How many mag changes do you need to do with a heel release mag and 30 rds? I was real quick with my P7 and P1 changing mags.
CD
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Looks like a fun one. 8)
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PS...if it was in .22 LR and had a threaded barrel...heck yeah!
Why can't you supress a .22mag? You'd get about the same performance, and .22mag loads tend to have much better quality bullets loaded to boot....
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Why can't you supress a .22mag? You'd get about the same performance, and .22mag loads tend to have much better quality bullets loaded to boot....
You could but only the 50 gr Federal would be subsonic. All others would still be super sonic and you prefer subsonic ammo for suppressed weapons, makes them quiter.
CD
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Thing looks great, and I hope it creates a market for others (Ruger! ;D) to follow! I love the fluted barrel (if that makes it to production), but would love it even more if it were threaded on the end like a P22.
Come on Ruger!!!
And +1 on a .30 carbine model!!! People bust on the .30, but I don't think they realize it's ballistics in the carbine are identical to a .357 magnum pistol... NOT BAD in my book! :)
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Am I the only one completely entranced by everything about this?!?
(http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/34805-2/FAL_PMR30_8403.jpg)
I don't see a ring! :) :) :)
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Am I the only one completely entranced by everything about this?!?
(http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/34805-2/FAL_PMR30_8403.jpg)
I don't see a ring! :) :) :)
Hmm. I don't see sights.
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Hmm. I don't see sights.
yeah, she really needs to take of that vest.
;D
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Can't wait for the FN 5.7 and Kel-Tec .22Mag comparison threads to start...
Here is one:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/23/myth-busting-22-magnum-vs-5-7x28mm/
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(http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/34802-2/PMR30_aiming_8573.jpg)
*BTW, A carbine built around this would be really nice
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Hmm. I don't see sights.
Sights are there on the FAL, rifle is canted. Doesn't look like there is no plates in the carrier (riding to high)
CD
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(http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/34817-2/keltec_hoodie_8637.jpg)
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It looks better than the Grendel P30 which was also a 30 shot .22 WMR.
I always regretted not getting a p30 when they were still available. Looks like I'll be getting a second chance.
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(http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/34813-1/wolverines_8624.jpg)
*Content Warning AND thread drift warning:
http://olegvolk.net/gallery/technology/arms/small_arms_coverage_combined_8649.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1
;)
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I should REALLY take up photography.... :o
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(http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/34813-1/wolverines_8624.jpg)
That girl looks SERIOUSLY hungry! I'd give her everything I've got... ;)
*Content Warning AND thread drift warning:
http://olegvolk.net/gallery/technology/arms/small_arms_coverage_combined_8649.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1
;)
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That girl looks SERIOUSLY hungry! I'd give her everything I've got... ;)
Here you go buddy:
(http://www.creativecraftclass.com/xcart/images/T/badger%20balm.jpg)
P.S. There are some nudy pics on his site if you browse through his gallery...... Some of them are holding guns ;)
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An insider at KTOG has posted these ammo tests with the gun:
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1259682868/0
I know there is still tons of questions about the PMR-30. Hopefully I can answer them.
One of the big questions is the velocity with various ammo and how it compares to the FN Fiveseven pistol....well I happen to have that info.
All velocity info in Feet per second, measured at 11 feet from muzzle, shot from a prototype PMR-30.
PMR-30 with Stock 4.3" Barrel:
Avg - Max - Min - Ammo
1308 - 1387 - 1211 - 30gr Winchester Supreme (HP)
1230 - 1280 - 1170 - 40gr Winchester Super X (JHP)
1101 - 1138 - 1065 - 45gr Winchester Dynapoint (HP)
1319 - 1393 - 1265 - 33gr Remington Premier Magnum (poly Tipped)
1116 - 1171 - 1065 - 40gr CCI Maxi-Mag (FMJ)
PMR-30 with non-stock 5" Barrel (likelly will be sold as an accesory):
Avg - Max - Min - Ammo
1482 - 1608 - 1404 - 30gr Winchester Supreme (HP)
1363 - 1412 - 1306 - 40gr Winchester Super X (JHP)
1149 - 1189 - 1121 - 45gr Winchester Dynapoint (HP)
1423 - 1458 - 1372 - 33gr Remington Premier Magnum (poly Tipped)
1262 - 1328 - 1224 - 40gr CCI Maxi-Mag (FMJ)
For comparison, here is the 5.7 pistol velocity with the stock 4.8" barrel and the only ammo we could get at the time.
Avg - Max - Min - Ammo
1708 - 1726 - 1684 - 40gr FN/Hornady SS197SR (PTFMJBT)
As we test more ammo, I will add it to this list.
Also this:
1. When is it available?
-Quarter 2 of 2010
2. How much is it?
-MSRP is expected to be $415. Most Kel-Tec firearms sell for less than MSRP after the initial demand dies down (around $300 to $350) could be expected
3. Why .22Magnum, and not .22LR?
- the 30 round .22 Magnum magazine is already a proven design. a straight 30 round .22LR magazine is not.
4. Will there be a rifle version?
- Maybe, but I can't guarantee it.
5. Will there be a .22LR conversion for the PMR-30?
- Maybe, this is currently in development, but the magazine design must first be perfected. No guarantee if or when it will be available.
6. Why the Heel Magazine release?
- Grip size. The .22Magnum round is very long, and stacking 30 rounds of them makes the rear of the magazine very wide. Adding a side push button mag catch to the magazine would make it even wider in the front and lead to an uncomfortable 2x4 feel grip. So the mag release was put in the heel, which leads to a wedge shaped grip that is easier to hold for those with smaller hands.
7. Are the sights adjustable?
- Front sight is dovetailed, so it is drift adjustable for windage. Rear sight is fixed, and not adjustable. But the Slide Cover can
possible be replaced with one with an adjustable rear sight, in the future.
8. Any way to mount a micro red dot to the slide?
- Doctor type red-dot mount is in development, but again, no gauruntee when it will be ready. The extra weight of a red-dot on the slide may cause functioning issues with weak ammo.
9. Any way to mount a scope?
- Not currently, but a cantilever type scope mount, attached to the forward picatinny rail is possible.
10. I want to stock up on ammo now, what is the recommended ammo for the PMR-30?
- Winchester Super X seems to function the best, but any full power .22 magnum ammo with 33grains or heavier will function well.
11. How does the Hybrid Blowback/Locked breech system work?
- It may be difficult to explain without pictures, but the principle and mechanism is fairly simple. The barrel is allowed to float forward and backwards a small amount in the frame. There is no mechanical locking system in the gun itself. The locking mechanism actually comes from the cartridge case locking to the barrel during firing. If the pressure in the cartridge is high enough, the friction will cause the case to stick to the chamber of the barrel, and the barrel will recoil with the slide until the pressure drops, just like in a locked breech firearm. If the pressure is low, then the barrel stays still (or barely moves), and the slide recoils just like in a blowback firearm.
This Hybrid system allows for the use of a large range of various power ammo, and does not require chamber friction reducing methods like a fluted or ported chamber seen on other .22magnum autoloaders.
12. Is the barrel removable? And if so, will other barrel lengths be available, possibly with threads?
- The barrel is easily removable during field stripping and swapping to another length barrel is simple. Other length barrels will likely be available as accessories. A 5” Threaded barrel is likely, but how well the hybrid locking system works with a suppressor has not yet been tested.
13. Any chance for a .17HMR or 5mm Magnum conversion kit?
- 5mm Magnum will not fit in the magazine, The case is just too big. 17HMR may fit but probably will not work with the hybrid locking system. These cartridges will require much more development to work in the PMR-30 platform, and may not be developed at all.
14. How many magazines come with the PMR-30?
- It's not 100% certain right now, but the current plan is for the PMR-30 to come with 2 magazines and a gun lock , in a lockable hard case.
You can also read what all the Kel-Tec fan boys are saying about this new gun here:
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1258752131
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UPDATE: Kel-Tec Rep says that a .22 LR version is in the works
Video here (29:45 mark):
http://www.youtube.com/user/nutnfancy#p/u/0/HAcl-zZPvxA
One of the higher ups at KTOG confirms it:
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1264396629
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For around 300 dollars, I would probably be in for a .22 mag version but if they release a .22lr version, I would be first in line at the local shop.
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Someone please feed that poor starving woman,, great link though eric. Very interesting gallery.
The last 2 photos in the main gallery is of an 1891 Argentine Mauser....Always good to finish strong..... ;)
To the Kel-Tec, one better have some "man hands" for it...
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Someone please feed that poor starving woman,, great link though eric. Very interesting gallery.
ROFL and +10, though I'd just throw the food to her as she looks like she'd take your hand off at the wrist. ;D Seriously, while I appreciate "booth babes" as much as the next guy, what sort of moron is swayed into to buying an SD weapon by a pretty face? I mean honestly, you aren't going to touch that, and if she can talk you into buying a $500 gun, she can talk you out of your wallet, so why carry in the first place? You're an idiot.
FQ13 who likes both girls and guns, but just like beer and guns, the two should not mix, or you'll do something stupid ;D
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.....beer and guns, the two should not mix, or you'll do something stupid ;D
My dad told me something like that about tequila and red-headed women once...... I've even listened about the tequila. ;D
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My dad told me something like that about tequila and red-headed women once...... I've even listened about the tequila. ;D
Was it something like this?
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Not quite, but another good reason to avoid it. ;D
He always told me "Stay away from Tequila and red-headed women, and never ever mix the two."
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Not quite, but another good reason to avoid it. ;D
He always told me "Stay away from Tequila and red-headed women, and never ever mix the two."
Amen to that advice - on all three!!
Maybe I should change my signature line to "I paid retail for all of life's lessons"?
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Amen to that advice - on all three!!
I plan to listen about the tequila. ;D