The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: Hazcat on November 23, 2009, 08:59:13 AM
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Friday, November 20, 2009
By Lucas L. Johnson II, Associated Press
Nashville, Tenn. (AP) - Tennessee's new law allowing people with handgun permits to be armed in bars and restaurants that serve alcohol is unconstitutionally vague, a judge ruled on Friday.
Chancellor Claudia Bonnyman said the law, enacted earlier this year over the veto of Gov. Phil Bredesen, is "fraught with ambiguity."
She ruled after an hour of arguments in a lawsuit brought by a group of plaintiffs, many of them restaurant owners. More than 257,000 people have handgun carry permits in Tennessee.
Tennessee previously banned handguns in all locations where alcohol was served. The new law made an exception for establishments that serve at least one meal on five days per week and that "the serving of such meals shall be the principal business conducted." Tennessee has no legal definition to distinguish bars from restaurants.
Plaintiffs' attorneys argued that it would be difficult for patrons to know what restaurants met the exceptions, which would put them at risk of breaking the law.
"What citizen could ever know that?" attorney David Raybin asked during the hearing. "It's criminal if you make the wrong choice."
However, Assistant Attorney General Lyndsay Fuller Sanders said patrons who have concerns "can just ask."
"Common sense should not be thrown out the window," Sanders said.
But Bonnyman eventually ruled that language in the current law is "unfairly vague."
Sharon Curtis-Flair, a spokeswoman for the state attorney general's office, said attorneys will study the opinion and decide whether to appeal.
Rep. Curry Todd, a main sponsor of the measure, said he hadn't seen the ruling but said he will ask the state to appeal. The Collierville Republican said he plans to "re-pass" legislation in January to fix any legal problems.
Plaintiffs' attorney David Randolph Smith said Bonnyman's ruling will stand unless overturned by an appeals court or the Tennessee Supreme Court. However, he said the state Legislature could pass a new law.
"But then that would create a new debate," Smith said.
Sen. Doug Jackson, D-Dickson and the chief Senate sponsor, said he expects the law to be restored either through appeals or through legislation.
"I anticipate the first of next week you're going to see legislation filed and we'll establish a clear standard," he said.
Tennessee's new law took effect July 14. Thirty-seven states had similar legislation at the time.
Many restaurants across the state opted out of the law under a provision allowing them to do so. The legislation retained an existing ban on consuming alcohol while carrying a handgun.
Randy Rayburn, who owns three Nashville restaurants, said the judge's ruling is mainly a victory for Tennessee residents who "are opposed to this law because it is vague ... and defies common sense."
Nevertheless, critics complained that guns and alcohol in close proximity are a dangerous combination.
Records show 607 people had their permits revoked or suspended last year. Revocations are issued for felony convictions, while permits can be suspended for pending criminal charges or for protection in domestic abuse cases
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/57514
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We have gotten rid of most of the jerks in the House, but there are still a few that just dont get it. I suspect a clear bill will be written and passed.
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Legislating from the bench
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sounds like you guys need to pass a law that states exactly what a bar is.
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Heaven forbid "Personal Responsibility" should favor law-abiding citizens....
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Well, statistics in TN show that 0.0023% of CCL holders had their permits revoked. So obviously by that measure, all TN CCL holders are going to drink and shoot. ::) Or do something else bad and lose their permit like not sneezing into their elbows........for a felony.......or something. (Something horrifying I'm sure. Like accidently being in a place that served alcohol, not knowing it, and then getting in trouble.)
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If I were in Nashville I DAMN sure would NOT be darkening the doorstep of any of the 3 restaurants owned by Randy Rayburn!
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Heaven forbid "Personal Responsibility" should favor law-abiding citizens....
reallity is, if you sell every thing you own, you still could not come anywhere close what it might cost you if you have a ND.
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reallity is, if you sell every thing you own, you still could not come anywhere close what it might cost you if you have a ND.
True, but not just in a bar. ND's are the bane of lawful gun owner's. A 23 year old had an ND at a home here in Cutler Bay that killed a 14 year old girl.
The anti's, will always use that MINORITY statistic, to determine the policy of the MAJORITY.
Classic NANNY state laws that chip away one piece at a time....
Remember,
There were several hundred million guns that killed NO ONE today in the U.S.
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Judge Strikes Down Tennessee Guns-in-Bars Law - Maybe. This is a local Chancery Court that apparently only applies in one district.
There seems to be a lot of confusion on this one. Say Uncle is from TN and he has been reporting on this suit fairly regularly. His latest is here: http://www.saysuncle.com/2009/11/23/more-on-the-tn-restaurant-carry-suit/ (http://www.saysuncle.com/2009/11/23/more-on-the-tn-restaurant-carry-suit/)
Indications are that the Legislature will override the court and fix whatever the court deemed unworthy.