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Member Section => The Leather Shop => Topic started by: MikeBjerum on November 19, 2011, 10:18:40 PM

Title: How do you mold the leather
Post by: MikeBjerum on November 19, 2011, 10:18:40 PM
This may be a very very basic question:

How do you mold the leather to the gun or other object you are making a holster or sheath for?
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: denster on November 19, 2011, 11:16:57 PM
This is not the only way to do it but it is the way I do it. Once the holster has been glued up and sewen I open it a bit with a forming stick. Then I give it a quick dunk in a sink of warm water with a few drops of dish washing liquid to break the surface tension. When I say quick dunk I mean leather that is under 8oz it's just a quick in out maybe one second. with 8 to 10Oz it gets two seconds and with drum dyed leather four seconds. I then set it aside for about five minutes untill the natural color starts to come back.
Next I open the holster with the forming stick paying particular attention to areas that are going to be tight when I insert the gun. Once this is done I insert the gun or a dummy making sure it is centered in the holster. Once it is in I use my thumbs to start the leather around the major features basically getting going the direction I want it to go.
Now here is where I differ from a lot of guys. I insert the gun and holster face side up in a vacuum bag and close it and use a vacuum pump to establish a vacuum. This brings the bag and the leather very close to the form of the gun it also exposes most of the details I want to bone into the holster. I bone these detail right through the bag using mostly a deer antler tine and a bent end real bone folder.
Once this is done I release the vacuum open the bag and turn the gun and holster over and repeat the process on the back side.
Once that is accomplished I take it out of the bag and touch up any detail I couldn't get to such as forming the belt loop if it has that feature and precountouring the holster. Next I burnish the surface of the leather with a sheepskin pad. This gives it a really nice sheen.
Then I remove the gun and place the holster in a convection oven set at between 125 and 135 degreesF for at least thirty minutes. The combination of heat and moisture releases collagens in the leather (think liquid hide glue here) which migrates through the fibers of the leather and makes for a very firm holster that will hold it's shape. When it is completely dry it's ready to burnish the edges and finish.
Many guys use a press with two 1 inch 40 durometer gum rubber pads to form the holster and expose the details for boning. I used one for some time and it works just not as well or quickly for me as the Vacuum press.
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: outrider on November 20, 2011, 07:30:47 AM
Denster,

I use the exact same process up until you get to the vacuum bag....

Dalton this should go onto the FAQ thread as soon as you have time to set it up
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: denster on November 20, 2011, 08:42:32 AM
Denster,

I use the exact same process up until you get to the vacuum bag....

Dalton this should go onto the FAQ thread as soon as you have time to set it up

Outrider

Do you use a press of any sort or just your hands? I'm curious because you get some really nice results.
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: outrider on November 20, 2011, 11:38:59 AM
Just done by hand...I am considering a 12 ton hydraulic bench press from Weaver..but have not ordered it yet
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: Sparky on November 20, 2011, 05:47:20 PM
I second the vacuum pump, Denster, I actually followed yours and Particle's process of building one from Leatherworker and it works great.
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: denster on November 20, 2011, 06:26:33 PM
Hey Sparkey how ya doin. Glad it's working out for you. I came up with a new platenen for mine. I still had and occasional time when the bag would seal around the air outlet before it pulled down all the way around the holster. Made it out of one of the plastic ammo trays that 9mm comes in. I drilled a few holes around the edges into the individual slots. Works great with a complete pull down each time.
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: denster on November 20, 2011, 07:17:58 PM
Just to give you all an idea of the detail you can get by using the vacuum bag and boning through the bag. This is for a Browning Hi Power made out of 8oz Hermann Oak drum dyed leather.
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: denster on November 21, 2011, 04:55:21 PM
I received a couple of inquiries regarding using a vacuum press to mold holsters. Thought it best to post a few pics since I had to mold a few this afternoon. The first pic is of the bag set up on my work table along with the tools I use to bone the detail. The second is of the vacuum pump. The third is of the gun in the holster, in this case a P7PSP, where I have started the leather going in the direction I want it to go. The fourth is with the gun in the bag and under vacuum. The last is after the gun comes out of the bag. One of the big advantages is that it takes very little pressure to bone the details through the bag and as you do the bag conforms and holds the details.
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: Sparky on November 21, 2011, 05:26:21 PM
If anyone is interested in cost I just built one about a month ago and I picked up the vacuum pump at Harbor Freight on sale for about $80, the bag was from Veneer Supply for around $80 and the parts kit I think was around $89.  I have a short memory though but I think thats about right.
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: outrider on November 23, 2011, 11:55:34 AM
Denster...did you get the 20 mil or 30 mil ply bag?
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: outrider on November 23, 2011, 12:10:49 PM
got a link to Denster and Particles "how to build"
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: Sparky on November 23, 2011, 12:13:06 PM
Outrider here is the link.
http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=28482&st=0&p=178649&hl=+vacuum%20+press&fromsearch=1&#entry178649
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: outrider on November 23, 2011, 12:36:26 PM
thanks Sparky...how is your system working?
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: Sparky on November 23, 2011, 12:45:49 PM
I really like it, I was just doing everything by hand with my bone folder before and you have to be so careful of your lines or you end up marring up areas a little bit, this system really helps with that issue.  My bag is still really stiff but seems to loosen up a bit with each use.  I have nothing to compare it to as far as using a press with gum rubber.  All in all I am very happy with it.
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: denster on November 23, 2011, 01:21:35 PM
I really like it, I was just doing everything by hand with my bone folder before and you have to be so careful of your lines or you end up marring up areas a little bit, this system really helps with that issue.  My bag is still really stiff but seems to loosen up a bit with each use.  I have nothing to compare it to as far as using a press with gum rubber.  All in all I am very happy with it.

Sparky

Are you using the poly or the vynal bag? I started with the vynal but it was stiff then went to the poly and the difference was night and day.

Outrider. I've got the 20 because at the time they didn't offer the heavier bag. Either will work just make sure it is poly not vynal.
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: Sparky on November 23, 2011, 01:40:00 PM
I actually think it is the Vinyl bag, do you think you get a better form with the poly, or was the stiffness the biggest difference?  I think it still works great, I just can't compare it to the poly.  Do you get a better vacuum and form on the poly?
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: denster on November 23, 2011, 02:45:32 PM
I actually think it is the Vinyl bag, do you think you get a better form with the poly, or was the stiffness the biggest difference?  I think it still works great, I just can't compare it to the poly.  Do you get a better vacuum and form on the poly?

Sparky

The vynal works good but yes the Poly is way better. Easier to bone through and you get a better pull down around the perifery.
I bought the 2'X4' and an extra closure and put the extra closure midway to keep half the bag pristine so I could use it when (read if) I ever wear out the first side. Interesting is that the 2X2 vynal was $50 and the 2X4 poly was $100 so it worked out the same.
I did finally manage to poke a small hole in the one side of the poly. Just stuck a piece of duct tape over it and I'm still good to go.
I swear I  don't know how civilaization existed before duc tape and JB Weld ;D
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: Sparky on January 09, 2012, 02:12:58 PM
If anyone is interested I have a coupon for $50 off of the Harbor Freight Vacuum pump that I use, it makes it $69.  They email me all of their coupons so if you want it PM me your email address and I will forward it to you.  It is good till 1/15.
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: Slowhand Bob on January 12, 2012, 07:23:26 AM
Is the larger vacuum pump overkill or is there a possibility that it would form a heavier leather (and perhaps a heavier bag if available)?  I am working on a project right now that will use an inner form and an outer mould to form a double ply holster in the +/- 15oz range.  The booger in the deal is that a formed sight track is is part of the moulding project.  It would eliminate the need for the female half of the moulds if this could be done with a vacuum but thats a lot of pressure it would seem to me?
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: denster on January 12, 2012, 09:01:19 AM
The only thing the heavier pump would do is establish a vacuum quicker. The smaller pump can do it in about 8 seconds with a 2'X2' bag. It is the weight of the column of air outside the bag that does the work once the vacuum is established.
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: Slowhand Bob on January 12, 2012, 10:07:38 AM
AHHH, so it is better to do this outside, where the column will be much higher!    ::)

Checked out all of my resources and do not find that particular press on sale at Harbour Freight right now. 
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: denster on January 12, 2012, 10:31:42 AM
Actually the air pressure outside is the same as it is inside the only thing that changes that is the elevation above sea level. ;D
In any case it will be right around 18lbs. per square inch.
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: Sparky on January 12, 2012, 12:28:06 PM
AHHH, so it is better to do this outside, where the column will be much higher!    ::)

Checked out all of my resources and do not find that particular press on sale at Harbour Freight right now. 
It is not on sale it is a coupon for it, a very good coupon...
I just emailed you the coupon..
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: Slowhand Bob on January 12, 2012, 07:12:25 PM
I checked and received it, thank you.  I will likely go into the big city looking for one tomorrow ifthings go as hoped for.  My 'go to' guy called this evening and let me know my new holsters female mould is done and I hope the male half will be done by tomorrow.

Thanks, that should work in my favor denster, I am probably less than ten feet above sea level.  Kinda like my concern over mounting the new 20 ton press, how can a table that is rated for only five hundred pounds handle that 40,000 pounds of downward pressure!   :o
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: daddyeaux on January 14, 2012, 10:40:53 AM
Thanks for asking this question. I was curious if a vacuum would help the molding. I was going to try my vacuum that I seal my food in. Anybody every try the Food Saver vacuum for molding a holster?
Slowhand on that press question, the piston of the press is only pressing against the base of the press not the table it is sitting on thus only creating the 20 tons against itself.
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: denster on January 14, 2012, 11:34:15 AM
A ffodsaver will work after a fashion. It's best to put the holster in a heavy freezer bag first before putting it in the foodsaver bag because the foodsaver has a bleeder pattern that will be impressed into the leather otherwise.
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: Slowhand Bob on January 14, 2012, 11:48:16 AM
OOOH, thanks for that tidbit  daddyeaux.   I do know of a guy on another site who has tried the food machine for mag pouches and it worked, but minimally.

Guys, I picked up the pump yesterday (thanks again Sparky) and put the oil in and cranked her up this morning, all seems ok but I do have one question that is not addressed in the little info sheet, what purpose the large cap marked air and has arrows pointing everwhere?  Now to start looking for the other vacuum parts needed.   I did consider trying the vacuum cleaner compression bag deal but figured it would be a waste of money.
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: daddyeaux on January 14, 2012, 06:35:25 PM
Thanks for the coupon Sparky, I will go by Harbor tomorrow and pick up the pump. I just ordered the kit and poly bag from Veneer. The smallest poly bag they have is a 2x4 and cost $134.50 now as it is on sale, $30 off. The kit was $82.50 I look forward to trying this.
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: Dalton Masterson on January 15, 2012, 12:29:20 AM
I tried the food saver bag thing, and yes, the little lines in the bags do leave a nice grid impression on the leather.... ::)

Other than that, it didnt work too bad for sucking in the initial impressions for me to go back over with a bone tool.
DM
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: Slowhand Bob on January 15, 2012, 08:14:20 AM
AHHH, embossed checkering, do you get to charge extra?
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: daddyeaux on January 15, 2012, 11:05:30 AM
SB, that black cap with the arrows pointing all directions is your air exhaust port. Just got mine and filled it with oil.
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: Slowhand Bob on January 15, 2012, 08:25:12 PM
AHHH, do I leave it alone or remove it and why was't it mentioned in the booklet?
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: daddyeaux on January 17, 2012, 11:39:24 AM
Just leave it alone. Some vacuum pumps use the handle as the exhaust port. I believe if you look at the exploded view of the parts it does mention it by name there. They may not have mentioned it because they didn't want you messing with it.
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: denster on January 17, 2012, 04:46:43 PM
Not to be messed with just leave it be.
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: Slowhand Bob on January 18, 2012, 08:35:15 AM
OH NO, that is exactly what Dad said sixty years ago when he gave me my first ,22, sadly he did not hide the screw drivers in time!  HMMM, I'll have to see if I can find some indicater marks to see how it fits.  Thanks for the replys.
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: daddyeaux on January 22, 2012, 11:50:50 AM
Denster how did you connect that coupler to the vacuum pump? I got the pump from Harbor and the fitting that is on the pump is a one piece machined brass with fittings designed for a refrigerant hose to connect to them. I see you have a pipe coupler connected to the fitting that is on the pump. How did you do that?
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: denster on January 22, 2012, 03:58:51 PM
Just a trip to Ace Hardware and pick up the correct union fittings. Don't forget the teflon tape for all fittings and some big spring clamps to hold the bag to the table. Generally three on each side. Keeps it from bunching up.
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: daddyeaux on January 22, 2012, 05:23:34 PM
Sorry but I can't think of a fitting that will convert from a hose fitting to a pipe thread..........I just change the whole piece to a street elbow and accomplished the same thing.
Title: Re: How do you mold the leather
Post by: denster on January 22, 2012, 06:21:57 PM
That will work just as well.