The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: PegLeg45 on December 01, 2012, 12:22:15 PM
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I have ordered from this gentleman (James Otto) located in the panhandle of Florida and plan on doing much more business with him, as money allows.
I exchanged personal emails with him and he seems to be a really nice, helpful guy. His business is a small, one man operation and it's amazing how he has prices as good or batter than the big guys.
Excellent prices on P-Mags........ and even better service and shipping.
http://ottofirearms.com/product-cat/magazines/rifle-magazines/
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Now that the government has somewhat denounced them, I'm wondering how all of the mall Ninjas over at ARFCOM are going to react? They've been raving about these magazines ever since they've hit the J-Hooks in the stores. They've also gotten praise from many of the "Trainers / Operators" who run these carbine courses. Most of these people go lock step with the military, and all of the Mil-Spec AR-15 parts, etc. I have several in both .223 and .308. I see no reason to go back to Aluminum or steel magazines.
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Now that the government has somewhat denounced them, I'm wondering how all of the mall Ninjas over at ARFCOM are going to react? They've been raving about these magazines ever since they've hit the J-Hooks in the stores. They've also gotten praise from many of the "Trainers / Operators" who run these carbine courses. Most of these people go lock step with the military, and all of the Mil-Spec AR-15 parts, etc. I have several in both .223 and .308. I see no reason to go back to Aluminum or steel magazines.
All good points. The trainer/operators I know all go with pmags. I like the pmags just because there is less friction in the magwell when using a plastic mag. Plastic mags make my reloads both faster and more positive.
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Peg, I want to thank you for posting that link to Otto Firearms!
I ordered a half dozen Pmags Tuesday evening. I then emailed them asking if they could add a charging handle to the order 'cause I forgot to do it.
Not only did I get a near immediate response saying it wouldn't be a problem, I just got the order today, Friday.
Sadly, it looks like nearly everything is sold out but Otto Firearms is definitely a good outfit to deal with!!!
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Peg, I want to thank you for posting that link to Otto Firearms!
I ordered a half dozen Pmags Tuesday evening. I then emailed them asking if they could add a charging handle to the order 'cause I forgot to do it.
Not only did I get a near immediate response saying it wouldn't be a problem, I just got the order today, Friday.
Sadly, it looks like nearly everything is sold out but Otto Firearms is definitely a good outfit to deal with!!!
Cool.
I put in an order Monday and got it Wednesday. I only live about 200 miles away so it usually only takes two days. I figured he'd sell quickly at those prices.
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James said on Sigforum that he is out of stock but it sound like he its hoping to be able to restock. We'll see if that happens with current demand.
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James said on Sigforum that he is out of stock but it sound like he its hoping to be able to restock. We'll see if that happens with current demand.
Yes.....and many thanks to you, good sir, for posting the link to his sight to begin with. :D
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If you know someone who simply MUST overpay for PMags...get them to overpay here:
http://www.skdtac.com/Magpul-PMAG-Gen-M3-30-rnd-AR-M4-p/mag.502.htm
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I just checked to see how much Beta C-Mags are. One like mine is $275. I don't remember what I paid for it but it wasn't that much. I wouldn't be surprised if they sell a bunch anyway.
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From skdtac:
TO OUR LOYAL SKD CUSTOMERS: These mags will not be made available at our normal price so they can be flipped to take advantage of the current buying frenzy. Nor will we be profiteering off of this current panic like some vendors in our community. In order to make these mags "ASSHOLE-PROOF", we will sell them at or near current market pricing, and donate the difference from our normal price to either the National Rifle Association or the Special Operations Warrior Foundation. If you take issue with this move on our part, please do not write, email, or call to complain- we will not respond. Just take a deep breath, do a little yoga, and channel your energy into doing something productive.
:P
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The problem is you have to take their word on it. When someone is making 300% profit on something that they were lucky to make 20% on two weeks earlier, it becomes very tempting to pocket the difference. Especially in today's rancid economy.
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I am just going to wait.
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The problem is you have to take their word on it. When someone is making 300% profit on something that they were lucky to make 20% on two weeks earlier, it becomes very tempting to pocket the difference. Especially in today's rancid economy.
I'm sitting on 10 AR GI mags that I paid $7/each for and I could probably get $20/each for them now. AND I don't even own an AR, I was planning on it then BHO got re-elected... ::)
Could sell them to get my HK91 rebarreled... ???
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I only have the one thirty rounder that came with my AR, and it's about wore out. So it will be broken and thrown away soon.
;D ;D ;D
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I'm sitting on 10 AR GI mags that I paid $7/each for and I could probably get $20/each for them now. AND I don't even own an AR, I was planning on it then BHO got re-elected... ::)
Could sell them to get my HK91 rebarreled... ???
I'll give you $80 Magoo, and I hooked you up with those, so I'll claim right of first refusal, but my advice is to hold onto them and buy an AR. I doubt an AWB will pass. Instead we'll be nibbled to death by ducks with things like shredding military brass and the like. I mean hell, the Dems can't even get the votes to pass an AWB on a straight majority in the Senate, much less beat a filibuster, and that's miles from getting it through the House.
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If your not an exclusive PMAG snob, ;)
Mako Group has E-Landers, Steel 30rd. mags for $18.00 in stock, but a 2-3 month backlog.
Made in Israel for the Tavor, M16, and common sidearms, they were tested by special military forces
and anti-terror units. These magazines have proven to withstand severe combat conditions and requirements.
http://www.themakogroup.com/product_p/earm30%20w.htm
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If your not an exclusive PMAG snob, ;)
Mako Group has E-Landers, Steel 30rd. mags for $18.00 in stock, but a 2-3 month backlog.
Made in Israel for the Tavor, M16, and common sidearms, they were tested by special military forces
and anti-terror units. These magazines have proven to withstand severe combat conditions and requirements.
http://www.themakogroup.com/product_p/earm30%20w.htm
OR just buy GI mags. I like the P-mags better, but the GI mags work just fine. My first mag will be a P-mag, but after that? Its what ever is to hand and I don't feel I got short changed on the GI mags I bought. Sucks that they got lost in the boating accident though. ;D
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The P-Mag frenzy appears to be dieing down. I just received 32 P-Mags from Otto Firearms and the Shooters Source. Both had them at normal prices with no limits. I still haven't seen them in Cabela's or Sportsman's Warehouse as of yet, but I'm sure they will follow shortly. Now that they're becoming available no one wants them. Instead they're busy paying $62.95 a box for 9 MM FMJ. Go figure.
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/federal-range-target-pistol-ammunition-rt9115-full-metal-jacket-1180-rdbx-p-126408.html
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http://www.brownells.com/magazines/rifle-magazines/magazines/ar-15-m16-pmag-polymer-magazine-10-pak-prod42583.aspx
Brownell's has 10 packs of 30 round, Gen 2 P-Mags in stock for $125.00. That's just $12.50 per magazine. I ordered 3, 10 packs yesterday, and they'll be here by Friday. Anyone who shoots AR-15 platform rifles would be wise to grab several of these while they can.
We most likely are safe from another high body count school shooting for the rest of the Summer. But when, (not if), it happens again after school is back in session, this whole thing will play itself out with worse results next time. And there will be a next time.
Even if you don't need them presently, it's a good idea to buy them now at prices that are very affordable. I did that with 9 MM FMJ ammo, and now I'm very glad I did. You can always easily sell them down the road for more than you paid for them. Especially if you keep them in the poly bag. They are more or less a type of "investment", if you look at it that way.
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But, but, the $90 dollar P-mags are "vintage" a collectible reminder of an important and epochal event in American history. I couldn't sell them for less than $150 each. ;D ;D
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But, but, the $90 dollar P-mags are "vintage" a collectible reminder of an important and epochal event in American history. I couldn't sell them for less than $150 each. ;D ;D
Well, at least $100.00 a piece.
http://www.outdoorfree.com/ads/10-magpul-pmag-black-magazine-ar15/
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Just for those who may be interested, a quick heads up. Man Venture Outpost has 30 round P-Mags, (black Gen 2, no window or dust cover), for just $10.18 each. They are showing literally thousands in stock. I've dealt with them on many occasions, and they're top notch all the way.
http://www.manventureoutpost.com/products/Magpul-Industries-Mag-PMAG-223-Rem-556NATO-30Rd-Black-AR-Rifles-MAG571%252dBLK.html
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Thirty rounders are fairly common in stores I've been to recently. Twenty rounders are what I've had trouble finding. There are several advantages I've found to twenty rounders such as bench shooting, confined spaces like a vehicle, and less ammo waste during practice. Don't get me wrong, I like my 30s a lot too. I already have a suitable amount of both, but you can never have enough. I paid regular prices (I'm a long way from paying stupid prices for them) for 4 20s and 2 30s. I can't buy billt numbers of stuff.
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Thirty rounders are fairly common in stores I've been to recently. Twenty rounders are what I've had trouble finding. There are several advantages I've found to twenty rounders such as bench shooting, confined spaces like a vehicle, and less ammo waste during practice. Don't get me wrong, I like my 30s a lot too. I already have a suitable amount of both, but you can never have enough. I paid regular prices (I'm a long way from paying stupid prices for them) for 4 20s and 2 30s. I can't buy billt numbers of stuff.
I'm having difficulty locating 20 rounders as well. Also, .308 P-Mags are all but non existent. I think one of the biggest reasons for this is they used all of their available molding presses to produce 30 round magazines since right after the Newtown shooting. Demand for 30 round magazines went off the chart, and the supply that was on hand at the time was gone in just days. Now that supply is finally starting to catch up with demand, perhaps we'll see 20 round P-Mags soon.
I prefer 20 round for most range sessions also. They don't cause any interference by hitting the bench and such when you're sighting in, or shooting off a rest. One thing I've done is aquire a good supply of the "Ranger Plates". I've installed them on many of my Magpul magazines. I just need to find some for the .308 P-Mags.
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Brownell's has 20 round pmags. They're regular price, though
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Bud's Gun Shop has 30 round pmags for $14, gen 2 window, in FDE and black
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http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Firearm-Components/Magazines-Clips%7C/pc/104792580/c/104717880/sc/104442480/Magpul-PMag-20-LR/1318840.uts?destination=/catalog/browse/shooting-firearm-components-magazines-clips/_/N-1100238/&avad=48247_c4a8d2a9&WT.mc_id=al35987&rid=12&WT.tsrc=AFF (http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Firearm-Components/Magazines-Clips%7C/pc/104792580/c/104717880/sc/104442480/Magpul-PMag-20-LR/1318840.uts?destination=/catalog/browse/shooting-firearm-components-magazines-clips/_/N-1100238/&avad=48247_c4a8d2a9&WT.mc_id=al35987&rid=12&WT.tsrc=AFF)
This shows in stock today from slick deals. 20Rd Pmag LR for 7.62 NATO
I'm having difficulty locating 20 rounders as well. Also, .308 P-Mags are all but non existent. I think one of the biggest reasons for this is they used all of their available molding presses to produce 30 round magazines since right after the Newtown shooting. Demand for 30 round magazines went off the chart, and the supply that was on hand at the time was gone in just days. Now that supply is finally starting to catch up with demand, perhaps we'll see 20 round P-Mags soon.
I prefer 20 round for most range sessions also. They don't cause any interference by hitting the bench and such when you're sighting in, or shooting off a rest. One thing I've done is aquire a good supply of the "Ranger Plates". I've installed them on many of my Magpul magazines. I just need to find some for the .308 P-Mags.
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DPW, thanks for the heads up!! ;D
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I received my new gen m3 pmag 20 round mags. They appear to be up to Magpul's usual high standards. Unfortunately, the redesign makes them no longer line up with the the front and rear grips. They have a slight curve that makes them a little longer instead of the original straight design. The bottom point is now flush with the rear grip instead of a little above it. I think they will ultimately do what I want them to as they are still much shorter than 30s.
This probably isn't as big a deal as I'm making it, but I'm disappointed that they've been lengthened.
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This probably isn't as big a deal as I'm making it, but I'm disappointed that they've been lengthened.
Can you possibly post a pic? I'm interested to see why they changed anything. It's not like they didn't feed correctly. They are the most trouble free magazines I ever stuck into an AR-15.
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/MidwestIndustriesHandguards002.jpg) (http://s812.photobucket.com/user/billt460/media/MidwestIndustriesHandguards002.jpg.html)
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Can you possibly post a pic? I'm interested to see why they changed anything. It's not like they didn't feed correctly. They are the most trouble free magazines I ever stuck into an AR-15.
I should be able to do that. It may be this afternoon or tomorrow.
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Thanks.
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Pictures comparing gen m2 and gen m3 pmag 20, as requested by billt.
The first picture is a side by side comparison of the two mags with the m2 on the left and the m3 on the right.
The second picture is of the m2 inserted into the rifle. (I really like the line created by this setup.)
The third picture is of the m3 inserted into the rifle. (This should still work fine with a bipod, etc. but I don't like it quite as well.)
If anyone would like a different angle or comparison, please let me know.
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Second picture.
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Third picture.
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Thanks a ton MKM for taking the time to do this. I'm really surprised at how much longer they are. Although they don't look it when inserted into the weapon. The curve I can somewhat understand. But with that said I've never had a FTF in ANY Mag-Pul 20 round P-Mag ever. Pretty hard to improve on 100% reliability. I'll for sure pick up several when they become available. I'm thinking the follower must be longer, and of a different type. As soon as I get one, I'll pull it apart and check. I put Ranger Plates on all of mine anyway. Thanks again.
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Thanks a ton MKM for taking the time to do this. I'm really surprised at how much longer they are. Although they don't look it when inserted into the weapon. The curve I can somewhat understand. But with that said I've never had a FTF or FTE in ANY Mag-Pul 20 round P-Mag ever. Pretty hard to improve on 100% reliability. I'll for sure pick up several when they become available. I'm thinking the follower must be longer, and of a different type. As soon as I get one, I'll pull it apart and check. I put Ranger Plates on all of mine anyway. Thanks again.
You're very welcome. Sorry, they are in three separate posts. I couldn't get them all in one. Just so you know, Ranger Plates don't currently fit gen m3 pmags. The base slides off backwards instead of forward.
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Just so you know, Ranger Plates don't currently fit gen m3 pmags. The base slides off backwards instead of forward.
I wonder why the hell they did that? I wonder if they'll have Ranger Plates available for them? There is certainly a market for them.
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I wonder why the hell they did that? I wonder if they'll have Ranger Plates available for them? There is certainly a market for them.
I often wonder why companies mess with a good thing. :-\ Do the ranger plates work well? I wouldn't want them on my 20s for reasons stated earlier, but I may on my 30s.
Here are two more pictures. The first is an exploded comparison of the two (gen m2 is green). The second is a closeup of the bases.
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Do the ranger plates work well? I wouldn't want them on my 20s for reasons stated earlier, but I may on my 30s.
Thanks for the extra pics. Yes, the Ranger Plates work very well. They are an overmolded process, similar to the method Hogue Stocks employ. It's a molded plastic plate, much like the standard plate. In fact it very well may be a standard plate mold they start out with. Then they are run through an overmolding process that creates the relatively soft, pliable "loop". They are very rugged.
From what I'm seeing in your photos the standard Ranger Plates would work, albeit you would have to install them backwards. ???
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AIM Surplus has 20 rnd pmags in stock for those of you still interested.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=MMAG560BLK&utm_source=AIM+Surplus+Main+List&utm_campaign=fa81b8f1db-080220138_3_2013&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6870497a6a-fa81b8f1db-18134321
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A note concerning my OP.... Otto Firearms is closed......... I tried last week to place an order and got a message that James was closing his business to enter into the US Navy.
He was a good guy to do business with and I wish him well in his service.
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A note concerning my OP.... Otto Firearms is closed......... I tried last week to place an order and got a message that James was closing his business to enter into the US Navy.
He was a good guy to do business with and I wish him well in his service.
Going out of business sale? I wish him well.
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Founds this on the G3 20 round Pmags
More Information:
Modified internal and external geometry also permits operation with a wide range of non Colt-spec platforms such as the HK® 416 and MR556A1, M27 IAR, British SA-80, FN® SCAR™ MK 16/16S, and others. A redesigned bolt catch notch in the rear of the magazine provides increased bolt catch clearance, while an over-travel stop on the spine helps ensure the magazine will not over-insert on compatible weapons.
The PMAG 20 GEN M3 features a long-life USGI-spec stainless steel spring for commonality, four-way anti-tilt follower and constant-curve internal geometry for reliable feeding, and simple tool-less disassembly to ease cleaning. In addition, an included pop-off Impact/Dust Cover can optionally be used to minimize debris intrusion and protect against potential damage during storage and transit. Low profile ribs and new aggressive front and rear texture gives positive control of the GEN M3 in all environments, and a paint pen dot matrix has been added to the bottom panel of the body to allow easy marking by the end user for identification. The new, easy to disassemble flared floorplate aids extraction and handling of the magazine while providing improved drop protection, but is slightly slimmer than before for better compatibility with tight double and triple magazine pouches.
Made in U.S.A.
Features
Next-generation impact and crush resistant polymer construction
Modified dimensions allow for wider compatibility with non Colt-spec platforms
Constant-curve internal geometry for smooth feeding
Anti-tilt, self-lubricating follower for increased reliability
Long life USGI-spec stainless steel spring for parts commonality
Over-travel insertion stop on the spine
Ribbed gripping surface and new aggressive front and rear texture for positive magazine handling
Paint pen dot matrix panels on the bottom of the body to allow for identification marking
Flared floorplate aids magazine handling and disassembly yet is slim enough for use with many double and triple pouches
Pop-off Impact/Dust Cover to minimize debris intrusion and for additional protection in storage and transit
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Man Venture Outpost now has Mag-Pul, Gen 2, 30 round P-Mags down to $9.67 each.
http://www.manventureoutpost.com/products/Magpul-Industries-Mag-PMAG-223-Rem-556NATO-30Rd-Black-AR-Rifles-MAG571%252dBLK.html
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The sale is now over. Back up to $10.18 each. Still a good price.
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Bump. They've lowered them to $9.89 each. They're available in Black, Flat Dark Earth, and O.D. Green.
http://www.manventureoutpost.com/products/Magpul-Industries-Mag-PMAG-223-Rem-556NATO-30Rd-Black-AR-Rifles-MAG571%252dBLK.html
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I just found out in a class to avoid the colored mags, they tend to chip. It is rare, but it does happen. I had a malfunction and the instructor passed that on along with the observation that only black plastic mags are offered in the new gen mags now. My mag was a tan mag...pretty embarrassing standing in a class line with your mag laying on the ground between your feet...
They chip where they engage the lock....not a good thing. As they age it will only get worse.
So, all of my colored pmags I use only for training and plinking now. I swapped them out of the bug-out bag.
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Good to know.....thanks, Rastus.
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i wonder if that is do to the pigment (or lack there of) or if they can add/ can not add some thing to get the diffrent colors. Say binder, uv protector, diffrent melting temp etc etc.
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You would think so....but I don't know if it's uv related or not.
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Adding pigment to lighten the plastic could very well have an effect on it brittleness, depending on the plastic that is being used. I've heard of this type of thing before. The locking edge on the side of the depressed boss the magazine locks into is quite shallow. When the magazine is inserted firmly into the gun, it could easily chip away the edges of the detent over time. At the range I'm always careful with this. I depress the magazine release when inserting the mag, then release it allowing it to engage.
That's not practical when running drills and the like, so I can see where chipping would occur if the plastic itself wasn't up to snuff. I'm not concerned because all of my P-Mags are black. I prefer the Gen-2 without the window just because they are the simplest...... And the cheapest. The window is nice and all. But I've seen a few that have broken out when dropped. Then all you have is a slot to catch dirt.
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Price on Gen-2's is holding steady at $10.06. No top cover for that price.
http://www.manventureoutpost.com/products/Magpul-Industries-Mag-PMAG-223-Rem-556NATO-30Rd-Black-AR-Rifles-MAG571%252dBLK.html
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Price on Gen-2's is holding steady at $10.06. No top cover for that price.
OK, I have to ask, Why bother with the top cover on P-Mags? When I'm on the range I wear my belt, which is set up for training. 2 AR mags, 2 Pistol mags, a dump pouch, leatherman, IFAC and my pistol holster. The AR mags are upside down in the mag pouches, and when it's time to reload it's time RIGHT NOW. Why would I be bothered with having to remove a cover on a mag?
Or am I completely missing something here?
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The whole top cover thing was supposed to keep pressure off the feed lips, which could deform them if left under spring loaded pressure over time. That subject has been argued both ways. Some have had P-Mags swell in the body enough that it would cause problems inserting it into the gun. Others claim no such problems. I love P-Mags. With that said I don't store them loaded. Polymer is softer than steel, and it can deform. This is why Glock magazines are metal lined. I'm guessing by losing the top cover, Magpul is in a round about way, saying they're not needed. Be that as it may, I only keep my steel magazines loaded. I use P-Mags for everything else. YMMV.
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Another use for the top covers is IF you do store them loaded, in quantity (as in a go bag), it keeps dust and debris from potentially entering the mag body.
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Another use for the top covers is IF you do store them loaded, in quantity (as in a go bag), it keeps dust and debris from potentially entering the mag body.
I keep my dust covers on whether they are loaded or not. Though as Maryland resident all I have are 10 round magazines...
;-)
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Are 30 round magazines grandfathered in Maryland?