The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: PegLeg45 on December 24, 2014, 05:26:30 PM
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Due to sales slump......
http://nypost.com/2014/12/23/gunmaker-staring-down-1b-in-debt-as-gun-sales-slump/
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I have a bad feeling Remington will be the first of many firearms manufacturers who will see financial trouble in the next upcoming months. This gun glut is only going to get worse. Sales have been too good for too long to allow for any more "banner years" in gun sales.
Add to that anti gun legislation is all but assured to be dead, especially after the Republicans take over the Senate next year. We all thought the worst after Hussein got elected in 2008. Then again after the Newtown shootings. Nothing happened. The worst was in Colorado, and they recalled their troublemakers, and gave them the boot. Between all the guns that have already sold, and gun control pretty much a dead issue, gun sales are going to diminish further, as people finally slip out of the panic mode most have been operating in during the last 6 years.
Ammo is coming back to regular availability and prices as well. It's time for things to settle down. Guys like us will keep coming back for more, but we're the minority. Gun companies count on new blood, and that has pretty well dried up. At least for the time being. I sure hope I'm wrong about all of this, but regardless of how you approach it, it looks like a lot of gun companies are in for a dry spell.
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I have a bad feeling Remington will be the first of many firearms manufacturers who will see financial trouble in the next upcoming months. This gun glut is only going to get worse. Sales have been too good for too long to allow for any more "banner years" in gun sales.
Add to that anti gun legislation is all but assured to be dead, especially after the Republicans take over the Senate next year. We all thought the worst after Hussein got elected in 2008. Then again after the Newtown shootings. Nothing happened. The worst was in Colorado, and they recalled their troublemakers, and gave them the boot. Between all the guns that have already sold, and gun control pretty much a dead issue, gun sales are going to diminish further, as people finally slip out of the panic mode most have been operating in during the last 6 years.
Ammo is coming back to regular availability and prices as well. It's time for things to settle down. Guys like us will keep coming back for more, but we're the minority. Gun companies count on new blood, and that has pretty well dried up. At least for the time being. I sure hope I'm wrong about all of this, but regardless of how you approach it, it looks like a lot of gun companies are in for a dry spell.
Wrong on so many levels.
1. The grabbers are moving to the states, sort of giving up on the Federal level for now.
2. The CO wankers may have been outed but the law still stands and Magpul is still in WY and TX. So how did that work out well for the people in CO?
3. I'm sorry, but what kind of moron trusts the Pubbies in kongress these days? About anything? Even with the influx of Tea Party types, the jackasses in power will control the agenda. If you doubt this, try working in an entrepreneur-run company to see how changing that works.
As for the gun glut, yeah, tough times ahead. And do not believe for a second that our blood enemies will not take advantage of every economic woe to ruin the gun companies further
Do not drop your guard for even a second. These people are our blood enemies, not because we want to be be so or because we have made them so. They are - and remain - our blood enemies simply because they have made themselves so.
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+1 Path.
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I am still reading the book Future Of The Gun, and a fact pointed out in the book is that these high sales rates are not due entirely to Pres. BHO. The point to facts, and I looked at the reference, that this actually began in 2006. In looking at the activities of government over the years there will be two items that can kill the gun sales: 1. Economy - Not enough money to purchase; 2. Manufacturer shortage - Can't sell what you don't have; OK, 3. Government bans and infringements.
If any manufacturer, especially as large and diversified as Remington Outdoor, is in trouble after eight years of good market economy, they need to look at their own internal management!
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The grabbers are moving to the states, sort of giving up on the Federal level for now.
They've always been at the state level. What's changed? If you are willing to live in a progressive state, (Illinois, New York, California), your going to get all the anti crap that goes along with it, period. It's been like that for decades. When did New York pass the Sullivan Law?
The CO wankers may have been outed but the law still stands and Magpul is still in WY and TX. So how did that work out well for the people in CO?
This is what happens when you allow liberals into what once was a conservative state. California is your best example. In the 60's when the Republicans ran it, it wasn't bad. Now it's a disaster zone. You are right that it's easier for a state to turn over before the Feds do. But even then it's not easy.
Did anyone actually think we would get through 6 years of Hussein without ANY gun control? Yet here we are. The first 2 years from 2008 to 2010 he had both Houses and accomplished nothing gun control wise. Do you actually think he will in the next 2? I'm not saying anyone should, "let their guard down". But we can stop living in a panic mode, and people are. Gun control has been very toxic for the Dems. Don't think they don't look at Colorado and pause. Those people train wrecked what could have been lucrative political careers by pushing gun control. It's been all risk with no reward. Feinstein couldn't even get her Assault Weapons Ban brought up for a vote in the Democratic controlled House. Do you think anything will happen with the Republicans in charge? It won't.
Democrats are the party of gun banning. The Republicans are not. Yes, we have a few bad apples in the Republican Party. But gun control is not a plank in the Republican platform. Never was, isn't now, and for sure won't be in the future. Look at every major gun control law presently on the books going all the way back to the National Firearms Act of 1934. Every one was introduced by, passed in committee by, and voted into law by....Democrats. The fact is they now control nothing but the current lame duck Presidency.
As far as his Executive Orders, where did that go? Remember when he made Biden his "Point Man" for gun control after Newtown? More nothing. Six years ago like many, I thought we were doomed. It all amounted to nothing. This with the most communistic President in this nations history. Now with his approval rating in the toilet, and Republicans in control of both Houses, there is little to worry about. In 2016 that could change, but not for the time being.
I'm sorry, but what kind of moron trusts the Pubbies in kongress these days? About anything? Even with the influx of Tea Party types, the jackasses in power will control the agenda.
Anti Second Amendment legislation is not in the Republican agenda. Never has been. Anti gun Republicans don't last long. I'm not saying we should "drop our guard". But I'm through worrying about things that aren't going to happen.
The tide is turning on gun control. More people approve of gun ownership than ever before in modern times. Democrats don't like this tide, but you can bet they respect it. It's why nothing was passed. They aren't stupid. They saw what happened in Colorado, and after the passage of the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994. They don't want that taste in their mouths again. It's too hard and costly to wash out. I honestly don't think this President cares about anything any more. He wants out more than we want him out.
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Some things to consider, 1, it's the NYT, they are ALWAYS going to put a negative spin on any gun article, it's their editorial policy.
2, "Debt" is everything they owe, if you "owe" money on a new dump truck it doesn't mean your not making a profit with it, it just means it's not paid for yet, such as the new facilities Remington has been building and acquiring outside of NY.
3, Remington Outdoors is not just Remington Arms, that's only a small portion of what was formerly "Freedom Group" including an ammo company (Barnes ?) Blackhawk, and all the other companies that Remington and Freedom group have bought up over the last 10 years.
I would not worry to much about their financial stability, profits may be down from the records they were setting, but the are still making profits, not losses.
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Some things to consider, 1, it's the NYT, they are ALWAYS going to put a negative spin on any gun article, it's their editorial policy.
2, "Debt" is everything they owe, if you "owe" money on a new dump truck it doesn't mean your not making a profit with it, it just means it's not paid for yet, such as the new facilities Remington has been building and acquiring outside of NY.
3, Remington Outdoors is not just Remington Arms, that's only a small portion of what was formerly "Freedom Group" including an ammo company (Barnes ?) Blackhawk, and all the other companies that Remington and Freedom group have bought up over the last 10 years.
I would not worry to much about their financial stability, profits may be down from the records they were setting, but the are still making profits, not losses.
Good points, Tom.
Debt is only one side of the ledger. If the Assets side shows 7B, I'd say they are in good shape.
I doubt theirs will say 7B, but without knowing what it says, we have no way of making a judgement on the 1B debt.
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Here's what Remington has to say about it.
(Sorry, it's a PDF, nothing I can do about that )
http://www.freedom-group.com/FreedomGroup2012_10-K.pdf
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Debt is only one side of the ledger. If the Assets side shows 7B, I'd say they are in good shape.
A lot of corporations are worth more dead than alive. There is a market for buying companies, chopping them up, and selling off the assets. These guys make millions doing this. Like the guy Richard Gere played in "Pretty Woman".
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A lot of corporations are worth more dead than alive. There is a market for buying companies, chopping them up, and selling off the assets. These guys make millions doing this. Like the guy Richard Gere played in "Pretty Woman".
i am worth about 3.5 mill dead....
about 300k alive lol
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Excuse me as I call BS on this article simply because it is not clear on one item, chosen for emotional response, and because another item is a blatant lie:
First, was the Bushmaster made by Remington or Colt? Just because Remington is the current company name on it does not mean that all Bushmasters were made by Remington;
Second, go to the FBI Fact Sheets http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/2013-operations-report (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/2013-operations-report) The article claims that gun sales are slumping after climbing in 2012 due to fears of regulation.
I have commented on another thread about the gun sales increase, and here are the facts I learned while reading The Future Of The Gun by Frank Miniter: In 2006 NICS requests jumped from 8.9 million to 10.0 million, the first major jump in many years. Since 2006 NICS requests have climbed from10.0 million (in 2006) to 21.1 in 2013. This includes a 1.5 million jump from 2012 to 2013 - A major part of the time frame the New York Times claims is slumping gun sales.
* I am commenting this now vs. my general comment earlier, because when I first read this thread the computer at the location I was at would not open the newspaper site.
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Allow me to add another fact found by reading actual company history:
Cebrerus took control of Remington on May 31, 2007. This is a year after purchasing Bushmaster, and six months prior to purchasing DPMS.
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M 58, your data are a year out of date.
It's common knowledge that sales have been slowing down, that's why availability is back up and prices have been coming down.
Colt never had anything to do with Bushmaster,so I don't understand that reference.
The article is not about Remington arms, but the umbrella company of Remington Outdoor, so not only the Bushmasters are made by them but also Blade tech DPMS,etc.
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First, Tom, I apologize for the Colt reference. My editor missed it as I removed and changed several items in my drafts. You would be amazed what I put in a few paragraphs and then move and/or change in the process of writing.
Second, Remington is my reference to Remington Outdoors.
Third, gun sales are not slumping in 2014! It is true they are down from 2014 and 2013, but year to date they are running ahead of 2012 in numbers, and the monthly trends match historical patterns.
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2014/10/nics-checks-show-gun-purchases-strong-in-2014.aspx (http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2014/10/nics-checks-show-gun-purchases-strong-in-2014.aspx)
Don't buy into the anti-gun mainstream media BS that the gun industry is dead, and that the NRA is planning for the funeral. That is unless you still believe that Dewey won.
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Never said, insinuated, or hinted the industry is dead. Merely pointed out the glaringly obvious fact that the crazy times have settled down to a more normal level .
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Between the facts that we still have high gun sales, selections are still hurting with long backorders, and the manufacturers have not stopped producing, I believe that this is not a return to the old normal. However, I will accept the new normal as long as businesses keep pushing as well. Unless you are one of those people who demands huge growth every day, this is still a very good industry to be invested in.