The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Building America's Rifle => Topic started by: alfsauve on August 13, 2015, 06:56:34 PM

Title: Tactical Build
Post by: alfsauve on August 13, 2015, 06:56:34 PM
uh oh.  parts are starting to gather.  i predicte an  AR-nado.  Oh hell yes.

(https://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-hnRxJ9X/0/L/WIN_20150814_015047-L.jpg)
Title: Re: Tactical Build
Post by: alfsauve on August 29, 2015, 02:16:26 PM
More parts showed up.   It's a storm brewing, I tell ya.

(https://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-Q5GrxHr/0/XL/IMG_2454-XL.jpg)


Along that line, Friday was .223 day at the range.  I took both rifles and both pistols.  The shorty, in-home, just didn't work out on the 100yd range, so I'll sight it in another day.

The AR National Match did pretty good.   Considering my eye-sight, here's the best of the 100yd targets.  Using some 62gr American ammo.   The groups with the 55gr weren't that much wider.  I will try and find some 68+ ammo to try as well.

(https://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-8VWLR3m/0/XL/Target%208-28-1501-XL.jpg)

My Varmint AR with 4-12x scope was next and there were a couple of flyers.   I'd blame the wind if there were any to speak of.  I shot several 5 shot groups and they were all about 2" without any wide flyers like this.   Will also try heavier bullets next trip.

(https://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-TtcGMwL/0/XL/Target%208-28-1503-XL.jpg)


Finally I took the bug out pistol and shot it off the bench.  It has Magpul BUIS sights.  After making sure I was close at 25 yds this is what I shot at 100.

(https://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-2r7r7D8/0/XL/Target%208-28-1502-XL.jpg)


All in all a very good morning at the range.  Hopefully the tactical rifle will be built by the next .223 day.    I've got to concentrate on my Glock for the upcoming GSSF Nationals, so it'll be October before I get back to rifles again.





Title: Re: Tactical Build -- the barrel
Post by: alfsauve on November 11, 2015, 07:23:24 AM
No I haven't abandoned my tactical AR build.  Just been busy with other projects and hadn't found the right deal on the right barrel.

TA-DAH-h-h-h.

(https://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-2CDG2Q4/0/L/IMG_31201-L.jpg)

Anderson 16"  1:8 barrel.  $110. 

BUT do you notice anything missing?  Besides the gas key and the FA and dust cover.  I'm taking this out first to play with it as a single shot.

This is the first build I've done that uses the traditional castle nut.  All my other fore ends came with a "flat" or smooth nut that didn't require alignment of the gas tube.  So what I'm missing are barrel shims.  Not a problem as my newest, bestest local AR parts supplier has them I'm sure.  http://www.fourtharmory.com/ (http://www.fourtharmory.com/)  There primary business is used car exports, but they're all shooters and so as part of their storefront they've become an AR parts dealer.  You can buy parts kits or just individual parts down to the gas block tube pin.

Anyway getting the shim isn't a problem as they're only about 5 miles either way.  The problem is where to install it.  I've looked at several on-line instructions sheets and videos.  Some say between barrel and receiver, and some say directly under the nut itself.  Advantage of the later is I don't have to cut the shim to get it on (naked barrel).    It does mean that the shim will be directly torqued, but it will also be up so tight against the barrel flange it should do any harm.  Putting it in front of the flange means a) cutting it to get it over the alignment pin, and b) it means moving the chamber forward ever so slightly.  Though 0.001-0.002mils isn't going to matter much the way the AR headspaces.

Opinions?     I'm about of the opinion that it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Tactical Build
Post by: Big Frank on November 11, 2015, 01:13:29 PM
I've worked on or inspected a couple thousand M16s and own 2 AR15s and to the best of my recall have never seen a barrel shim. What does it look like and what's it's purpose?
Title: Re: Tactical Build
Post by: alfsauve on November 11, 2015, 04:49:27 PM
If you keep the barrel nut within 30ftlb-50ftlb of torque, the castle nut may not be aligned to allow the gas tube to pass.  By using a shim or two of 0.001" you can get the nut properly aligned with in the torque specs.    Some people, from what I have read, just torque the nut on up to 90ftlbs to get it to align.

Other techniques?

And before you ask, yes I've put a light grease coating on the barrel/upper area and on the threads.  Yes, I've tighten and loosened the nut several times.
Title: Re: Tactical Build
Post by: Magoo541 on November 12, 2015, 01:16:22 PM
And before you ask, yes I've put a light grease coating on the barrel/upper area and on the threads. 

What kind of grease did you use?  I've seen two varieties referenced, WC-33 (IIRC) & something I can't remember.  I hope to have my new barrel soon, wife permitting  ::)
Title: Re: Tactical Build
Post by: Big Frank on November 12, 2015, 06:19:29 PM
Thanks Alf. That's what it sounded like but I never heard of it before.

Molybdenum di-sulfide grease is what I used. Torqued down 3 times and the last time tightened up 30-80 Ft-Lbs IIRC until it lines up right. I could look in my TM to be sure but I'm lazy. I have an alignment gauge that fits in the bolt carrier key that makes sure the notch is lined up. It works better than just sliding the gas tube through the hole.
Title: Re: Tactical Build
Post by: alfsauve on November 13, 2015, 01:18:13 PM
What kind of grease did you use?

This is a non-critical, non-wear application, whose main purposes are to aid in assembly and to retard galvanic corrosion between the aluminum frame and the steel barrel & nut.   There are mil-specs for this grease, but heck there are also mil-specs for toilet paper. 

I used Lucas Oil X-Tra heavy duty green grease.  It's property includes good coverage and "maintains a constant film of protection even under irregular maintenance."

Title: Re: Tactical Build
Post by: Big Frank on November 13, 2015, 02:25:29 PM
I just checked my manual and it says to tighten the barrel nut down to 31-35 foot pounds 3 times and DON'T use the torque wrench to loosen it. I didn't see a maximum torque listed, just until it lines up right. I thought it was a maximum or 80 or possibly 90. I was able to find mil-spec moly grease at a place that sells ball bearings. After I was done changing barrels I started using it to grease the ball on my trailer hitch so it's not going to waste.
Title: Re: Tactical Build
Post by: alfsauve on November 14, 2015, 06:29:37 AM
One other method suggested on other forum, if you just need 1mil is to take a fine file to the face of the upper.

1mil shims are on order from VeriForce Tactical.  (0.07mm actually)

And I also noted a neat shim kit for muzzle attachments that come in various widths.  Rather than use a crush washer you put utilize the appropriate width washer.  Ordered a package of those too.
Title: Re: Tactical Build
Post by: Big Frank on November 14, 2015, 01:15:40 PM
I use a jam nut for the compensator on one AR and a peel washer for the A2 style flash hider on the other. I've seen crush washers advertised but never used one. I've reused peel washers but don't know if you can reuse a crush washer. Shims sound like a reasonable alternative if you don't like peel washers.
Title: Re: Tactical Build
Post by: PegLeg45 on November 14, 2015, 04:51:17 PM
I use a jam nut for the compensator on one AR and a peel washer for the A2 style flash hider on the other. I've seen crush washers advertised but never used one. I've reused peel washers but don't know if you can reuse a crush washer. Shims sound like a reasonable alternative if you don't like peel washers.

I've used them all but peel washers over the years for various projects.

My preferred method is a machined jam nut....then shims...... I hate crush washers, but will use them sometimes.
Title: Re: Tactical Build
Post by: alfsauve on November 20, 2015, 09:43:45 AM
So the shims came yesterday and now the barrel, gas block/tube, fore end, muzzle brake are all in place.

(https://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-ptH4gQQ/0/L/IMG_3148-L.jpg)

It's not ALL complete, as I haven't put in a FA or the dust cover.  Not 100% I'll add those.  And remember the different thickness shims for muzzle brakes?   Well turns out they're 0.75" in OD.  Oops, that's about what manufacturers make their recess size.  So the washer just barely don't fit.   I'll file them down, but had they bothered to look most crush washers are 0.74" for that very reason.  For right now a standard crush washer in on the muzzle.

(https://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-GRJMj95/0/XL/IMG_3147-XL.jpg)

(https://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-FKrm8Gp/0/XL/IMG_3149-XL.jpg)

(https://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-S4kqHMq/0/XL/IMG_3157-XL.jpg)

(https://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-Z76L9fP/0/XL/IMG_3159-XL.jpg)


The lower an upper are matching manufacturer.   I haven't built the lower out, no rush as I can borrow the one from another.

Title: Re: Tactical Build
Post by: alfsauve on November 25, 2015, 08:46:01 PM
I couldn't stand it, plus I had my monthly retirement check in my pocket.  I went ahead and built out the SDI lower to match the upper.   

I KNOW THIS IS JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE's 16" AR, but this one is MINE.

The Skyjacker Defense, SDI, is a local company who made the upper and lower.   Don't know if they're going to make it, but I am a sucker for local companies.  AAC, think 300Black Out and supressors, is another one.  So is C3.   Anyway, when I bought the upper/lower set I was told it was with very tight tolerances.  And I must say the lower is tight.   I used CMMG parts kits.   And no, I left off the dust cover on purpose.   I've given up on my single shot experiments. 

Next ".223" day at the range, this baby is going out.   Only change will be a cantilever mount for the sight.  I don't like bridging the upper rail to the fore end rail.  And definitely think the scope hanging by one mount looks weak if not funny.

(https://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-Qk2Dv3h/0/X3/IMG_3185R-X3.jpg)

(https://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-qLfjSCD/0/XL/IMG_3171-XL.jpg)

(https://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-sSJwrFx/0/XL/IMG_3168-XL.jpg)

(https://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-TSsSszB/0/X2/IMG_3172-X2.jpg)



 
Title: Re: Tactical Build
Post by: Big Frank on November 25, 2015, 10:09:27 PM
Yeah, that scope needs a new mount but the rest of it looks good. I like the long hand guard.
Title: Re: Tactical Build
Post by: alfsauve on January 11, 2016, 07:33:16 PM
Took her out last Friday for a spin.  Just wanting to check functioning and adjust the Millet red dot.

GOOD NEWS and BAD NEWS.

Not a lot of good news.   SOMEBODY, who will remain nameless, forgot to tighten down the gas block.  I actually got my chance to shoot an AR single shot mode.  DUH! 

The Millet scope has been around for a while, loaned out to other shooters and used on a variety of guns.  It was so far off that at 50yds it wasn't even close to hitting the paper and I mean a 3' x 12' piece of paper!   By the time I got that Millet scope cranked around I was tired of manually recharging the rounds.  GOT to get a better scope.   Going for one Michael recommended for tactical shooting.



IN OTHER NEWS (cause I know you hang on every word I type ;) )

I also took my 10/22 target out for the first time in 4 years.  Still putting them in tiny groups at 50 yds, but its scope was off about 6" right and a foot down.  Cheap Simons.  I spun the elevation knob round a whole turn before I finally got some noticeable movement.    GOT to get another scope for it.

But then, I had a good time on the bullseye range with my old Ruger MkI.  It can still, with a little encouragement from me, put them in the 10 ring at 25yds easy.    And I ran 250 rounds through my nifty little new SW 929.  So the day wasn't entirely a bust.
Title: Re: Tactical Build
Post by: tombogan03884 on January 12, 2016, 06:25:14 AM
Any day at the range is a good day !
Happy scope shopping :-)
Title: Re: Tactical Build
Post by: Magoo541 on January 12, 2016, 07:14:53 AM
Which scopes and red dots are you looking at? I'm partial to Trijicon's MRO and the new Vortex 1-6 that retails around $400.
Title: Re: Tactical Build
Post by: alfsauve on January 12, 2016, 07:54:31 PM
Some thread back, Michael Bane posted here, or it may have been a blog, a trio of "value" priced scopes suitable for tactical shooting.   I think they were, the Lucid HD7 if you want a red dot, a Burris MTAC 1-4x and the Bushnell 1-4x BTR.   (I could be wrong about the Burris.)

I'm torn.   I'm favoring Nikon's M223 1.5-6x  at the moment, but the Bushnell looks good. 


Title: Re: Tactical Build
Post by: les snyder on February 20, 2016, 09:06:11 PM
not really tactical, but just finished my 9mm AR that was my Christmas present to myself...New Frontier Armory complete billet lower and their Glock modular bolt... the rest came from MAS Defense... Aero Precision upper, barrel, charging handle, and YHM fore end... for a monthly run and gun mini match

(http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz180/LesSnyder/001_zpsmzdqwofs.jpg) (http://s825.photobucket.com/user/LesSnyder/media/001_zpsmzdqwofs.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Tactical Build
Post by: alfsauve on February 20, 2016, 09:21:42 PM
Looks good les
Title: Re: Tactical Build
Post by: Rastus on February 17, 2019, 02:06:47 PM
Took her out last Friday for a spin.  Just wanting to check functioning and adjust the Millet red dot.

GOOD NEWS and BAD NEWS.
<snip>

So, we never got a followup on this!!

 ::)