The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Reloading => Topic started by: MikeBjerum on February 12, 2016, 05:51:42 AM
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Started playing a new game this winter - Cowboy long range. I picked up a .45/70 lever action for the rifle cartridge, but I am having difficulty finding reload data. I have a couple recipes from others, but would like a few more to try out. Anybody done any reloading of .45/70 Government for rifle with lead bullets?
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What did you get for a rifle ? Winchester mod 1895?
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I heard that 70 grains of black powder works OK in the 45-70......... ;D ;D ;D ;D
Seriously though, I know a couple of guys who travel to shoot in BPCR matches and load with black powder. They say it is loads of fun. (was that a pun?)
I've done it in my .44 Rugers, but not in rifles.
Old school is still cool.
http://longrangebpcr.com/
http://bpcr.net/
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First thing, if you are reloading, is to get/buy/borrow a current reloading manual, preferably published by the manufacturer of the bullets you are using.
There is a lot of data out there. I have several CURRENT reloading manuals. Be careful of any of the manuals that are over 10 years old, as those loads tend to be pretty hot.
Wolfe publishing has a web site www.loaddata.com which is very good. You have to pay an annual fee to use this service. They also publish the Rifle and the Handloader magazine.
Second, realize that a lever rifle does NOT have the strength of a Ruger #1.
Third, get a sissy pad or a limbsaver recoil pad, because you will need it with a lever rifle.
The drop at heel of lever rifles can make you very aware of recoil.
I would suggest 300-350 grain bullets as a starting point, and then you can go up to 400 grain bullets.
I have used all of the weight bullets, and of course as the weight goes up, so does the recoil.
The 45 caliber can be a lot of fun, and can be very accurate.
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Can't get 70 grains of BP in a modern case,it will hold about 65 grains,I used to use a 405 grain lead bullet with a .45 cal wonder wad and a card cut from a milk carton over 65 grains of FFFg BP,It shot real well in my Marlin 1895CB.I even won the NY state SASS Long range rifle side match with it one year.Make sure there isn't any wax lube on the bullet,If you use a BP lube on it then you don't need the wonder wad.
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Fairly new Pederosli 1886/71. Going to shoot smokeless with lead (rules).
I have several reloading and powder manuals, and lead is not the bullet covered in the ones I have. Hornady doesn't even use rifle specs. They use Thomson Center handgun.
Heading out for a load and delivery. Will get back to this Saturday evening.
Thanks!
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Keep the greasy side down.
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I some pig loads, but tgey are guide gun only as they are hot. Kicks like a,mule.
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Keep the greasy side down.
The magic numbers are
12,000 - steer axle
34,000 - drive axles
34,000 - trailer axles
80,000 - gross
Five tries to get this balanced
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e330/m58/scale_zps1oi9lfzq.jpg)
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;D
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Started playing a new game this winter - Cowboy long range. I picked up a .45/70 lever action for the rifle cartridge, but I am having difficulty finding reload data. I have a couple recipes from others, but would like a few more to try out. Anybody done any reloading of .45/70 Government for rifle with lead bullets?
I have. For long range work, you would be better off with a single shot, since you can use bullets of any shape. I would share my loads with you - but I shoot an H&R that likely can take more pressure than a lever gun.
The 45/70 is a wonderful cartridge for lead bullets. I cast mine - the only problem is that 300-500 grain bullets use a lot of lead! Lee makes a 340 gr. mold that produces very accurate bullets. They make flat nosed bullets as heavy a 500 gr. - and the price of their molds is quite reasonable.
As others have mentioned, you need to get a good reloading manual. After you do that, you will discover that there are three categories listed. The first is for original trapdoor rifles and similar old guns. The next is for modern lever guns. Finally, there is the highest pressure loads for modern single shots and Mauser bolt action conversions. You will be limited to the middle category and to flat nose bullets (unless you want to single load it.
If you Google "reloaders reference" you will find an online manual that is quite useful, especially for cast bullets reloading.
Hope this helps!
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Yea, single shot is next on the list, but with four categories you work your way up one gun at a time. This rifle meets "lever action rifle cartridge." Most of the guys at the two local clubs are using modern Sharps for both smokeless and black powder single shot. Most of the other half have old trap doors for black powder and modern Sharps.
Still searching for that manual with more categories, but the main stream so far have neglected what I am looking for, so I came here to find which manual to check out.
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Loads for the .45-70. Boy, is that a tough question, sorta like "How high is up?" there just ain't no simple answer.
If you are using an antique gun, or a reproduction of an antique gun, you really ought to use black powder. The gun was designed for lead bullets and black powder velocities, and believe me, it will just plain work better if you use lead bullets and black powder. And remember it isn't just matching the velocity of black powder, you want to match the pressure of black powder. Which is gonna be pretty difficult with smokeless powder. (Some of the black powder substitutes might work well, but I have found them to be more of a problem to work with than real black powder.)
Someone already mentioned "you can't get 70 grains of black powder into a .45-70 case." Well, yeah, you can, you just have to do it differently. If you're using GOEX powder, you will need a drop tube. This is a two or three foot long tube with a funnel on the top. Pouring the powder into a case with this uses the falling of the powder to pack it in uniformly, which you can't do pressing it in with a bullet. But a better idea, if you feel you just have to have a full 70 grains in there, is to purchase some of the Swiss black powder. This stuff is about 15% denser than GOEX, and you won't have any problem getting your full 70 grains in.
I should mention that the best load for any cartridge using black powder, is however much powder you can get in there and still seat your bullet. The exact amount don't mean nothin'.
One of the big problems newcomers to black powder have is with bullet lube. You absolutely can not use any modern, waxy, petroleum-based bullet lube. It just don't go with BP. You need something natural, and the best place to start is with beeswax. I melt it together with the same weight of Crisco, and it works great. Some folks mix beeswax and olive oil. I've tried it, but think Crisco is just as good. This lube is for both your bullets and any sort of wads or cards you might want to use.
Most of the bullet moulds available for the .45-70 are, unfortunately, meant for smokeless powder, and just don't carry enough lube for back powder. You need plenty! Look into the "Big Lube" line of bullet moulds.
And finally, the most important thing about shooting black powder is cleaning up afterwards. This is usually the main reason folks steer away from using The Holy Black Powder. But just one word is the answer to this, and that word is "Ballistol." This wonderous substance is available in both a spray can and as a liquid. You need both, the spray for shooting down the barrel of your guns if you don't want to clean them right away, and the liquid is for mixing with water when you're ready to clean them. You can spray down a black powder fouled gun with Ballistol, and put it back in the safe and forget about it until the next time you want to go shooting. The Ballistol neutralizes the acidity of, and removes the moisture from, the fouling. The mixture on a patch or two will clean out the remaining gunk, and leave a shiny barrel. Dry the barrel, and DO NOT put any petroleum product in there, and you will be ready to shoot the next time.
In case you haven't figgered it out, I have been shootin' black powder for a long time, in muzzleloaders, cartridge guns, single shots, lever actions, shotguns and revolvers.
Grizzle Bear
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Why not the original load of 70 grains with a 405 grain bullet for rifle and 300 grainfor carbines and other short barrels ?
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Trail Boss is your friend.
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
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Why not the original load of 70 grains with a 405 grain bullet for rifle and 300 grainfor carbines and other short barrels ?
Tom, those loads were with the old balloon head cases, the most Black Powder you can get into a solid head cartridge is 67 grains and you need a drop tube and powder compression die to get that much in.