The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Reloading => Topic started by: Rastus on September 03, 2016, 08:05:27 PM
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Dang ATF and the nitrocellulose issue. I am concerned the issue comes back unannounced and then powder prices will go through the roof. What I know about reloading is not a lot and when it comes to powders I can look at charts and such, but actual experience from you guys trumps what I know by a mile.
I hope I am wrong about future availability of gun powder but better safe then sorry.
Performance and interchangeability are the biggest factors here with cost dragging up the tail end of considerations.
So if you could only have 6 powders on hand what would you keep? You know where I'm going with this to be supplied in the future when there may be no "cheap" powder.
How about a two shotgun powders? Something for buckshot and slugs and then something for squirrel/rabbit/bird hunting.
And how about two pistol powders that will work with:
- 9 MM
- 40 S&W/10MM
- 45 ACP
- .357/38
- 44 mag
And how about two rifle powders that will work with:
- .223/5.56.220250
- .243/.270/308/30-06
- 30-30
- 444 and 450 Marlin
- 7MM Mag/ 300 Win Mag/7mm rem Ultral Mag
- 50 BMG Admittedly this may be a 3rd powder...I dunno
Now you guys being creative and such probably can cross platforms with several powders and then maybe I find out 6 total powders are not enough to load the ammo I have listed above. I tried to group together what I think should be like applications but then..like I said, I dont' know much about reloading.
Thanks,
Ken
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I like the cooler burning Winchester ball process powders for pistols... Win Super Field for 9mm and .40sw.... prefer Win Super Target for .45, but WSF will work... for magnum loads Win 296 or Hodgdon H110
I don't reload 5.56 any more but used Win 748 for 55, and Varget for 69SMK
can't help you on the larger calibers
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Thank you for what you did help me with. It's just a dang shame to have to think about stockpiling some on a possible future cost increase. But then if I'm wrong, I hope to retire or something similar to that in a couple of years and reloading is definitely on the top ten list of routine past times.
So it's looking like WSF will work for pistols and Win 296 for magnum loads. The Varget seems to cross a lot of platforms.
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Interesting question, but how about reducing it to just 3 powders.
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Honestly I thought about that but I included two for shotguns. Maybe you can get by with one for both bird shot and buckshot...I dunno. And to my very limited knowledge, I doubt there are effective crossovers from the shotgun world to the pistol/rifle world.
Which says, there are but 4 powders to pick for pistols and rifles...if I am surmising right about shotgun powder's inability to crossover. So for this exercise in my mind it's going to be really tight to try to do everything with 4 powders but what do I know...not a lot. Maybe it comes back you can do pistol/rifle with just 2 powders and do it better with 4. Then of course maybe you can't and you need 6 or more pistol/rifle powders.
I am fudging here, since in addition to the six powders I plan on having some Accurate #7 around just for reloading the 5.7 rounds. You can use it for other things, but from what I know it does a good job in the 5.7.
I wanted, initially, to keep this to just pistol and rifle juice but that would have been just wrong if somebody is thinking about shooting and hunting.
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Titegroup or Accurate #5 for pistols.
Varget for rifles.
Universal Clays shotgun powder can be used in some pistol rounds like 9mm, .38spl, and 45ACP.
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Titegroup or Accurate #5 for pistols.
Varget for rifles.
Universal Clays shotgun powder can be used in some pistol rounds like 9mm, .38spl, and 45ACP.
Switch out Bullseye for #5 and that's my short list all day long.
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The old standbys,these will work for most anything
Bullseye
Red Dot
2400
Unique
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PB and Trail Boss.
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Wow. Those were some emphatic replies.
Thanks.
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OK, here's what I actually stock:
Red dot - for really light pistol loads.
Unique - can cover most pistol cartridges, shotgun and even light rifle loads.
AA9 - Magnum pistols and my .30 Carbine
Varget and IMR 4895 - can be used in a variety of non-magnum rifles rounds from .223 to 45/70
SR 4759 - for reduced loads and my primary 45/70 powder - discontinued :(
So, those are my 6 powders.....
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So what are you going to do to replace 4759?
Also, where do you guys usually find powder the cheapest? I get the flyers from Wideners but with their new website they went up in price. And, I wander over to Grafs now and again.
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I think getting this down to 2 powders. For me I could do all my handgun ammo with Tight Group and any of the numerous rifle powders, say H4895, for .223 and .308. Are these the best powders for every load? No, but I could make do with them.
Here's some of my bookmarked reloading suppliers.
Of course you can check Ammo Engine (now WikiArms) for supplies and suppliers https://www.wikiarms.com/
http://www.precisionreloading.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=PRE
http://reloadingunlimited.com/
http://www.jmreloadingsupply.com/
http://www.butchsreloading.com/shop/55-hodgdon
http://powdervalleyinc.com/
http://www.lohmanarms.com/default.asp
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ammunition/handgun-ammunition.html
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Powder Valley has WSF in 8# for $139.... small pistol primers for $28/1000... hazmat is $28.50 so make the order worth while
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I'm a minimalist when it comes to calibers...... I only load for .30-06 and .308win for now. My pet loads for each both use the same bullets (for now) and both use Varget. It is clean and accurate.
I just finished my first AR pistol (thanks to Alf and Les for posting photos a while back, I caught the bug.... and if I'd known building an AR from a box of part was so easy, I'd have started a long time ago LOL). I may order some dies and build up some custom loads for it (7.5" bbl).
Titegroup fills the bill for handguns at the moment since I only load .45ACP and .44mag/.44spl. It also goes a LONG way since it doesn't take a lot per charge (.44spl is around 5grs....I don't have my load data with me....on vacation and am sitting at a Ft. Clinch SP picnic table).
I keep some IMR4350 for loading my younger son's pet hunting load in .243win and in a pinch I think it works well with .308win.
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...on vacation and am sitting at a Ft. Clinch SP picnic table).
Oh, man. My favorite place on the Atlantic side is AI. Wish I could be there. We usually go during schools fall break, but can't afford it this year.
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Some other choices or thoughts. I went through this the last time, so I stocked up on the basics.
HS-6 for 9mm and 20ga (slug and shot loads)
American Select (12ga Shot, Slug, and .45acp)
Ramshot TAC .223 and .308
In the past I have used 2520 for .223, .308, and .30-06.
Can also substitute Clays for the American Select.
Are there better powders, sure, if I can get them. Overall I do not use more than 6 powders though.
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Oh, man. My favorite place on the Atlantic side is AI. Wish I could be there. We usually go during schools fall break, but can't afford it this year.
The only way we can afford it is her "cake money"....we stay at the state park Labor Day week and five nights cost $150.
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Just need two powders.
A very fast clean burning powder and a very slow clean burning powder.
Then you just blend them to get the characteristics you need for a load.
Sure, it's a bit risky at first, but if you live through the learning curve, you're set. ;D ;D ;D
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Sure, it's a bit risky at first, but if you live through the learning curve, you're set.
Here! Hold my beer. What could go wrong.
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Blending powders is a risky business if you don't have specific knowledge of the process and equipment to do the proper ballistics/pressure testing. Ammunition mfg. both commercial as well as Gov. arsenals blend powders to achieve a specific burn rate.
There are also some loads that use what is called a Kicker or Duplux load which is a small charge of fast burning easily ignited powder on the bottom of the load column topped by a heavy compressed charge of very slow burning powder which keeps the powders from mixing together,it want hurt if it does mix somewhat but velocity variations and poor accuracy will result.
The very slow powders used in the duplux load would only be used in a situation where the powder by itself is way to slow for the application an want produce enough pressure on it's own to be very useful without adding the kicker. I personally don't do it or have a use to as I have none of those very slow powders or type cartridges that would benefit from the use of those type loads but there is a wealth of knowledge past and present about there use.
To the OP's original question about only having 6 powders to cover all you needs,that really depends on the individual an what they want to accomplish with a particular caliber. Based on type of shooting,ranges I shoot at and what the particular caliber is and used for as in target shooting,hunting or SD I can easily stock 6 powders if I want to have choices. I can choose fewer powders if I just want a powder that will work in multiple calibers that give me a fairly decent latitude on load ranges and will work very well,it may not be the best choice but it does what I need it to do.
I have to point out that although I do shoot an occasional jacketed bullet about 99% of all my pistol and rifle shooting is done with my own cast lead bullet which I cast from different alloys and different nose styles for a given purpose,velocity and pressure and after doing so for the past 30 years I've never felt limited for the type shooting I do. Velocity isn't really an issue for me as I can pretty much match any handgun jacketed load I shoot with cast lead and in rifle I'm pretty much limited by the twist rate of the bore and the bullets weight / length when it comes to usable accuracy. I shoot 4 different caliber handguns and 4 different rifle cartridge in both US and Russian 30 cal.
In my handgun calibers I like Bullseye for all the non magnum loads,for the 357 Mag. 2400 is my go to powder. Unique will work fine in all these calibers as well.
9MM
9 x 18 MAK
38/357
45 ACP
In my rifle cartridges I mainly shoot loads composed of 2400 but I also have reloader #7 & H4895 with will work with both jacked and cast loads. The H4895 can be used with the 60% starting load with cast lead and be worked up to a suitable velocity that a particular bullet /twist rate will allow which with the rifles like my Mosin and SKS with a 1:10 are around 2K fps. and the 1:12 twist bores are a couple of hundred fps. faster. Bullseye also work for me with light weight cast pistol bullet for sub sonic plinker/small game rifle loads. I shoot the same 32 cal. Lee 90 gr. tumble lubed SWC sized to either .311 or .314" in all my rifles.
30-30
300 Sav.
7.62 x 39
7.62 x 54R
So my powder choices are
Bullseye
Unique
2400
Reloader#7
H4895
And Reloader#15 to round out my top 6.
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Thanks Reloader.
I'm guessing one of those will work with 300 Win Mag or 7 MM Rem ultra mag to near max performance?
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Thanks Reloader.
I'm guessing one of those will work with 300 Win Mag or 7 MM Rem ultra mag to near max performance?
Well not really for the two rifle powders I mentioned like Reloader #7 & H4895 Both are actually too fast to get the correct case fill to give Max performance with jacketed bullets. For those 2 cartridges a powder like Reloader #19,22 or 25 would give excellent results across a wide range of bullet weights or a powder like IMR or H-4831 will work in both calibers as well.
None of those powders work for me as there way to slow for my application. Those 2 cartridges have almost double the case capacity of most of my cases,the only exception being the 54r which has a Max. capacity of 52 grs. of IMR-4350,but the powders listed above wouldn't even let me get that much volume in the case so velocity would be much lower.
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So what are you going to do to replace 4759?
Also, where do you guys usually find powder the cheapest? I get the flyers from Wideners but with their new website they went up in price. And, I wander over to Grafs now and again.
I try to use milsurp powder when it is cheap and available. I stocked up a few years ago 0 but I need to think about more Unique soon........
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Do I understand you to use 2400in both rifle AND pistol ? ?
What is the effect on riflerange and velocity ?
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I need to finish the spreadsheet I started for more comments to zero in on the "ultimate solution".
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Do I understand you to use 2400in both rifle AND pistol ? ?
What is the effect on riflerange and velocity ?
Well it really depends on the cartridge and bullet weight. In rifles I only use powders like 2400,Red Dot,Unique and Bullseye with cast lead,however in the old days I used to use 2400 in my 22 Hornet with jacketed bullet and got excellent accuracy. 2400 is still listed in the Lyman reloading manual for use in the 22 Hornet & K Hornet as well as the 218B with jacketed bullets as far as centerfire rifle goes,there may be a couple more.
Red Dot will work with both cast as well as jacketed bullet for reduced load in military type cartridges using bullets which are normal for the caliber,it's called The Load http://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris/articles/The%20Load.htm
As to 2400 I shoot that powder with cast loads in my SKS & Mosin Rifles as well as my Sav. 99 in 300 Sav. & Sav. 170B in 30-30 but it works in a wide range of cartridges. For load data with cast lead the Lyman Cast Bullet manual #3 & #4 will have load data using 2400 in lots or cartridge calibers,the #3 more so than the #4 but most of the military type cartridges in the #4 manual still have 2400 data.
Mr. Harris who came up with The Load using 13.0 grs. of Red Dot also developed a load called The Universal Load which is 16.0 grs. of 2400 in cartridge case like the 30-40 Krag,30-06,303 British,7.65 Argentine,7.7 Japanese,7.62 NATO.7.62 x 54r Russian & 8mm using cast bullets that are similar to jacketed bullet weight for caliber. Velocity in general runs in the 1500 to 1700 fps. ranges,it's one of those loads that just works with no fillers required and delivers excellent accuracy. In the Cast Bullet manuals there will be a wider load data range using 2400 in most of the mentioned calibers which will also show higher velocities but true accuracy / velocity will be determined with cast bullets more so by the bullet length / weight and the rifles barrel twist rate. You can read more about the Universal Load here http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article