The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: billt on October 14, 2016, 08:36:21 AM
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I'm reading a lot about both of these firearm finishes lately. The problem is I'm not familiar with either of them. Can anyone shed some light on these coatings who has guns treated with them? From what I've been able to gather, Duracoat is a type of high tech Epoxy paint. Where as Cerakote is more involved, and supposedly much more durable as far as resistance to oils, solvents, and the like. Duracoat can be applied at home, where as Cerakote requires a type of "certified service center" you need to send your gun to in order to get it applied, because it's a more involved process.
And then to further complicate things, you have the very popular camo dip finishes. They appear to be a kind of, "liquid decal", or some such. From what I've read, those are the least resistant to oils and the elements because they scratch very easily. When you see photos of guns treated with these finishes, most are new and look really good. I'm just wondering what they look like after a couple of years, and a few thousand rounds of use? Can anyone comment on these finishes who has a lot of experience with them?
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My Para LTC was coated in their "Paracoat" as they called it. I believe it's similar to the Duracoat.
It did not hold up well and scratched quite easily. It was an aluminum receiver however. I've read that guys used Duracoat sprayed over Paracoat and it held up better.
.02
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I have looked at these things off and on for a few years too. Also looked into doing a "rattle can" finish on my shotgun. It's just spray can camo(two or more colors). Rattle can does NOT hold up, but in a camo pattern you can do a lot of damage before it looks bad.
Duracoat is supposed to be decent, but doesn't hold up under a lot of use (from what I've read- no experience).
I've read that cerakote holds up pretty well. I think it gets baked on and is much more of a process, and there are "certified applicators".
I"d thought about having a pistol done, but I just haven't seen any rock solid recommendations on durability. Plus every one of my guns was bought, in part, because I liked the way it looked. So changing them doesn't make much sense.
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You can DIY cerakote...... kits are available at Midway and Brownells......there is a learning curve because the layers go on thin.
I had a friend/neighbor who used to do the Duracoat as a side business at his shooting range. He got away from it because too many folks expected it to be able to withstand more than it is designed to do. He says the ceracoat is more durable because it has ceramic particles that bake-on. They have an air-dry version, but from what I understand, the bake-on is better. YMMV
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I had my 6.8 REM AR cerakoted FDE by a local guy here in KY, and I am very pleased with it. Matches the Magpul hardware and so far has held up - albeit I haven't shot it much. Have you seen the price of 6.8 lately? ? ? ? ?
The only drawback is that I had to turn everything over to the painter and wait, and wait, and wait some more.
I looked into cerakoting myself, but the need to bead-blast the aluminum was a non-starter as it would run about $1000 for a compressor large enough to drive even a small bead blast setup.
I am now looking into duracoating to see how that works, and I can do it myself. I had heard previously about the lack of durability, but since I don't shoot that much, I may just go with it. Besides, distressed paint jobs are all the rage right now . . . .
Did not know about the DIY cerakoting from Brownell's, will look into that as well. Duracoating also has a bake-on paint, but in a limited range of colors.
BTW, I actually painted a lower with Rustoleum FDE a while back, and it turned out well, considering I wasn't trying to be a pro at the painting. The finish appears hard, covered over the black nitrided surface (with multiple light coats) and does not obliterate any of the markings. YMMV
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Also check into the Alumahyde through Brownells. It is aerosol and air-dry. I have some, but have not applied it yet.
The guy I mentioned above uses Krylon Fusion aerosol paint on plastic and fibergalss parts and Rustoleum for the metal parts of his own "regular-use" rifles and shotguns. It seems to last well enough, and when it wears thin, it's easy to touch up or re-coat.
He also had one of his Glock framed hydro-dipped with a carbon fiber pattern. I can't vouch for the durability of this.
Another guy who used to shoot at the range painted his rifles using boat paint from walmart. It came in a four color camo kit. It seemed very durable.
As with anything involving painting or coating, surface prep is the most critical stage.
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This is why I don't like paint of any kind on a firearm. Unless it's a safe queen, this is what it will look like after it gets any kind of use or wear.
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/PaintedAR-15.jpg) (http://s812.photobucket.com/user/billt460/media/PaintedAR-15.jpg.html)
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Heck, that looks like a badge of honor. ;D ;D
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There was a good episode of "Gun Venture" on yesterday where Ryan Gresham went to the Cerakote "factory" in Oregon, I believe it was. They explained the process pretty well, and showed several guns it had been applied to, including Ryan's personal Springfield XD. Much of the firearm has to be stripped down, and the parts run through a specific chemical cleaning process, then oven dried before application. They said it comes in something like 100 colors, and all but unlimited patterns.
It's still a spray on coating that contains ceramic particles, that is "baked on". They didn't say what kind of temperatures are involved. That would concern me. Especially with high dollar scopes. (They did show scopes that were coated). Overall I would choose it over Duracoat because I think it's the more durable of the 2. But I doubt either are as durable as conventional rust bluing, black oxide, or Parkerizing. More rust resistant, yes. For me, I would only consider it on a gun that was severely worn, or else badly rusted, because part of the application process involves sand blasting every surface where it's being applied. That's pretty drastic.
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If durability is the most important feature, you might want to look at Armoloy
http://www.armoloyftworth.com/Armoloy_WebDevelopment/Web_Pages/Firearms_Applications.htm
Just one color, I believe, and they do not do springs or aluminum parts.
Haven't done business with them since the mid 70s, but I think they are still active.
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When I worked at T/C in the 80's they used Armaloy.
Thickness of the coating meant that Armaloy barrels couldn't be used on blued receivers.
When I went back in 2001 they had dropped it in favor of plain stainless steel that was completely interchangeable.
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When I worked at T/C in the 80's they used Armaloy.
Thickness of the coating meant that Armaloy barrels couldn't be used on blued receivers.
When I went back in 2001 they had dropped it in favor of plain stainless steel that was completely interchangeable.
Don't know what tolerances are generally acceptable, and specifically not at T/C, but 0.0002 seems small?
" Armoloy’s thickness, with regard to steel, remains constant and predictable and will not reflect a buildup of greater than 0.0002 of an inch or about one fourth the thickness of a human hair! It has an equivalent hardness in excess of 78 Rockwell C when measured by conventional micro-hardness methods, making it one of the hardest coatings on the market. "
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Tom's right. Fox Ridge Outfitters, T/C's custom shop, used to offer a service whereby they would make the Armalloy barrels and frames compatible with the others. They must have milled the finish off.
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Tom's right. Fox Ridge Outfitters, T/C's custom shop, used to offer a service whereby they would make the Armalloy barrels and frames compatible with the others. They must have milled the finish off.
I guess I wouldn't have it done to a T/C product then.
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The actual build up was more like 0.01
You could use a blue barrel on an Armaloy frame but not the other way around.
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That contradicts what Armoloy "glossy" says.....not saying they are being 100% truthful..but it does seem unusual.
Did T/C do the Armoloy treatment in house or did they send the parts out to an Armoloy shop?
Did T/C use any other treatments? Duracoat or Cerackote?
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They sent the parts out. That was long before Duracote or any of the other "super finishes". The only other finish I know of them using was the camo dip stuff they put on receivers rejected for porosity.
They did all their bluing in house as well as color case hardening. They claimed that was a Doug Turnbull process but that was bullshit, it was done right beside one of the machines I ran..
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I am not a fan of any finish that is not chemically or electrically( plating not powder coating) apply.
none of them hold up worth a shit.
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I am not a fan of any finish that is not chemically or electrically( plating not powder coating) apply.
none of them hold up worth a shit.
TAB, I agree. All of this spray on crap looks like $h!t after any normal wear.
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I am not a fan of any finish that is not chemically or electrically( plating not powder coating) apply.
none of them hold up worth a shit.
That is why I liked Armoloy...
Only have one firearm treated... Ruger Blackhawk in .357 Mag...and had no tolerance but maybe a single action revolver is not that tight.
It just never took any wear...