The Down Range Forum

Flying Dragon Productions ( Michael Bane ) => Shooting Gallery on Outdoor Channel => Topic started by: Rastus on October 20, 2017, 09:20:19 PM

Title: USPSA Carry Optics Episode
Post by: Rastus on October 20, 2017, 09:20:19 PM
I watched the episode with carry optics on pistols.  I shot very little with them and had a hard time picking up the dot.  After shooting a few rounds I started picking up the dot a little better. 

Do you guys have much interest or exposure to dot sights on the slide?  I'm interested but I'm thinking about just sticking with iron sights....but then if you have some good experience I'll give it a shot.
Title: Re: USPSA Carry Optics Episode
Post by: alfsauve on October 21, 2017, 10:27:17 AM
Co-Witness is the way to go for carry optics.

If you put a couple thousand rounds down range each week then sure, a red-dot acquisition is instinctive.  For the rest of  us co-witness helps tremendously.
Title: Re: USPSA Carry Optics Episode
Post by: Rastus on October 21, 2017, 10:34:31 AM
Yeah, I put a dot on a Buckmark 22 for the Ruger Rimfire Challenge when it was in Tulsa a few years back and....figuratively shot myself in the foot trying to acquire the dot.  My youngest son has an M&P 22LR with a dot on it.  They both run great.

From what I was seeing on the episode, it seems as though the frame mounted dots are the best.  Are there any frames suitable for CCW????  I kinda doubt it but I gotta ask 'cause I don't know.

Title: Re: USPSA Carry Optics Episode
Post by: les snyder on July 15, 2019, 07:53:45 AM
Rastus... I'm a Vortex fan boy... I have 3 SPARCS, 2 Venoms and an Spitfire, but a good friend had problems making a Venom live on a slide mounted 9mm for USPSA... the Leupold Pro has held up for him so far... I'm currently running a Venom on my 9mm PCC for USPSA and on my 10" .22lr SBR for Steel Challenge... they are working fine on the long guns
Title: Re: USPSA Carry Optics Episode
Post by: Rastus on July 16, 2019, 07:04:35 AM
I've got a Sparc II waiting on me to put together the 308...;under $200.

I put a Trijicon RMR on a Canik TP9SFX and I likes (that's right...likes) them both. 

One things for sure for need to practice with the dot on what it is you are going to shoot so that you can train yourself into picking up the dot.  The dot doesn't just "appear" and then you move to the target.  You have to acquire the dot first...and then acquire the target.  At least, that's how it works for me. carry pieces rely on the old fashioned front sight. 

Maybe it's just me....
Title: Re: USPSA Carry Optics Episode
Post by: les snyder on November 30, 2020, 07:18:38 PM
to the original question... I built a G17.3 with a Trijicon RMR2, and the sight completed its one year continuous on anniversary in October, I changed the 2032 battery... the slide was milled by BattleWerx for the RMR, and they did an excellent job... I added the thin bottom plate by DPP Titanium, and just cold blued the machined surface and a spritz of Birchwood Casey barricade for protection... the slide was in good shape... as my vision deteriorates with age, I find that it is becoming more difficult to find the front tritium lit sight, and the red dot makes a much better low light platform for me

the second G17.3 had a slide update to a Swenson machined for a Venom, and carries one of the Venoms... it is in a Recover Tactical brace in a car bag, Streamlight ProTac1 in a Viking Tactics mount

I've started competing in Steel Challenge, and have switched to Holosun 510 dot scopes (with photo voltaic cells) for both the 10/22 and MkIV 22/45 lite....the Venoms are having to find other jobs...the large format lens makes it easier for me to track the dot... regards
Title: Re: USPSA Carry Optics Episode
Post by: Rastus on November 30, 2020, 09:57:04 PM
Les you put a lot of thought into that post.  I'm old...I'lll need to read it again in the morning to get the most out of it.
Title: Re: USPSA Carry Optics Episode
Post by: les snyder on December 01, 2020, 08:12:52 AM
Rastus... I tend to loose continuity in my thought stream, and use the "..." to alternately change train of thought, while sometimes use the convention to continue my thought stream...

I wanted to convey that the constant on dot greatly improved my night vision sight picture, and report it was still bright on the one year anniversary of installing the battery... I've shot fixed sighted pistols in competition for 30 years or so, and the dot is a new platform for me... I tried a couple of USPSA matches in carry optics division, but my daily carry G43x is still fixed sighted (tritium front)

I'm really impressed with the Holosun use of a solar powered dot that increases brightness with increase of background lighting... they are around $200 cheaper than the Trijicon... the Steel Challenge format allows me to still play at gun games and doesn't require the physical ability of a USPSA match... hopefully when things get a little cooler, will get the AR9 out to play... regards Les
Title: Re: USPSA Carry Optics Episode
Post by: tombogan03884 on December 01, 2020, 08:22:40 AM
I want to try a red dot on a carry pistol.
I like them on rifles.
But none of mine are optics ready, none have rails.
What are my options, do any decent ones mount in the rear sight dove tail ?
Or is buying myself a new gun the only option ?
Title: Re: USPSA Carry Optics Episode
Post by: les snyder on December 01, 2020, 04:12:00 PM
Tom... from what I've learned.. money is the consideration... the Vortex Venoms and like start at around $250 up to $490 or so for a Trijicon without a one time the Leupold Delta Pro Points and the Trijicons were the only ones holding up to continuous beating on USPSA pistols when mounted on the the time I was using a Vortex Venom on my AR9 and decided to try one on a carry optic pistol...I wanted to mount the sight as low as possible, and not use a clamp on mount,  but wasn't sure at the time I wanted to machine the Glock slide... I bought an aftermarket Swenson slide machined for the Venom foot print.... unfortunately at the time there wasn't and still isn't a standard footprint to mount sights... the Venom and a couple of others use two mounting screws and accept 4 studs on the corners... I shot this pistol for a couple of matches... in the run up to the election, I started looking at low light options for the house.... at that point I decided to have one of the G17s machined for a Trijicon RMR2 (constant on dot)... the work was done by BattleWerx and was exceptional.. the fit fore and aft is almost a press fit, and the concave cut centers the sight ... the tight fit uses the sight body itself as a large recoil have a choice for the location of the traditional rear sight location..... the RMR is mounted with a machined stud through which the mounting screws are threaded...the Trijicon requires that the sight be removed to replace the battery as the battery is in the bottom, but only needing to be changed yearly is not a high price for the increased weather proofing... the Venom has a top battery compartment, and the Holosun used a slide in tray

I have an Agency Arms .22lr conversion unit I shot for practice .... I mounted a Venom on it by means of a DPP Titanium (7075-T6) dovetail mount... it rides higher than either of the machined G17s, but is very tough... it would be my recommendation for an inexpensive trial to see if you want to go with a red dot for carry...

since starting with Steel Challenge matches, my preference is now for the Holosun line of dot scopes in the $310 range ... they are Chinese, but so far I really like them... there are a couple of small format sights in the 507 series... I have a 507c,

BattleWerx machining foot print
Title: Re: USPSA Carry Optics Episode
Post by: tombogan03884 on December 02, 2020, 09:01:47 AM
Thanks Les, you've given me a lot of info to work on.
Title: Re: USPSA Carry Optics Episode
Post by: Dklee4141 on December 03, 2020, 01:26:51 AM
You can purchase sight mounts that have the dovetails slid in first, and then thr mounting plate is screwed into the dovetail insert.  Many of these are universal with screw points for different companies or ones made specifically for a certain brand.  There is also a similar mount but instead of a plate to screw into the dovetails, you screw down a picatinny mount which allows use of some of the bigger style rmrs and reflex/dot sights.  The picatinny mount i had even had fiber optic sights on the back which you could somewhat cowitness with, but itd be better just to remove the sight so you could see more than like a 5 mm circle in the middle of the rail and sight.  If you have accessory rails on the bottom of your slide, you can purchase sight mounts that attach on the bottom, and the mount is a square you insert the barrel through and the sight is mounted on the top part of the mount.  With these you could fit full size scopes or a small telescope if you wanted.  I went from lowest mount to barrel to furthest away from barrel with the underrail floating mount.  As you go from options 1 to 3, your zeroed distances have to be done much more accurately unless this is for long range shooting.
I suggest holosun reflex sights for mid size optics, sig Sauer Romeo 1 or pro for rmr style then trijicons if you can find a good deal.  Fov is lot larger and not color coated heavily like some trijicons.  There is something called the flip dot which is pretty cool I think, and the trijicons which don't need batteries are handy as well