The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: robert69 on May 13, 2018, 12:03:22 PM
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Does anyone know of a source for a flat wire recoil spring for a Remington 1911 R1 hunter, 10mm, 6 inch barrel, long slide, 22-24 #?
I have tried all the usual sources, Fusion, Wilson, Brownells, Remington (Para) with no success.
Some of the springs available say it would be for a 5 or 6 inch barrel, but that is not true. They are too short. I need a flat spring because the guide rod is .250".
The reason is because the stock spring is not heavy enough, and the pistol throws brass a country mile (20 feet back, 10 + to the right.
The pistol likes 180 grain bullets at 1240 fps, but you really have to hunt for the brass. I have loaded 165 grain at 1276 fps and it doesn't sling it quite so far. Groups are a bit larger than with 180's.
I would like to go to a heavier spring before I would have to modify the pistol, if necessary.
I am just spoiled with my Glock model 40, because the brass ends up at your feet.
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Have you tried Wolff? They're the only gun springs I buy. I don't know if they have flat wire springs but they seem to have everything else. I like their variable power recoil springs and 10%XP magazine springs.
https://www.gunsprings.com/
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Yes, I have tried Wolff.
They do not make flat springs, and they don't make them for 6 inch long slides.
The guide rod for their springs is .360, so I would have to replace the rod as well as the cap.
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Call good guys at DoubleTap Ammo http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=common/home (http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=common/home) . I bet they can tell you where to go to find what you need.
Oh, I guess 10 years ago or so I bought some of their ammo...the owner asked me what I was shooting and gave me a spring for my 10MM because he said I'd need it.
It's worth a try.
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Yes, I have tried Wolff.
They do not make flat springs, and they don't make them for 6 inch long slides.
The guide rod for their springs is .360, so I would have to replace the rod as well as the cap.
If they won't make one to fit there are businesses that custom make all kinds of springs, except maybe flat wire springs. If you wanted a regular round wire spring it wouldn't be a problem to get them made to your specifications in your choice of a few different kinds of steel.
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Thank you for your advise.
I called double tap, but they do not have any recoil springs for the Remington.
So the search is still on.
Thanks
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Sorry that did not work out for you.
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Sprinco Recoil Management Guide Rod System, Part Number 11264, 1911 6" COR-BON (+P+), Includes Bushing Plug and Hex Wrench, for $109.95, may be a solution to the problem. "The COR-BON model utilizes a stronger subspring in order to compensate for hot, +P+ loads. A shooter should only use a COR-BON recoil reducer if he/she intends to exclusively shoot MAXIMUM POWER FACTOR +P+ ammo. The .40 Super, .45 Super, .400 COR-BON, and full house 10mm loads would also fit into this category. If you are using one of the fine Clark .460 1911 Rowland Conversion packages, special considerations apply, and we have a designated system for use with their conversion package." They sell recoil springs and should have the right replacements for it. I can find .250" I.D. flat wire springs, like that 10mm one at Wilson's, but only in 5". So far this is the only thing I can find that would work.
http://www.sprinco.com/recoil.html
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Thank you for your information!
I called Sprinco, and gave them my wants.
They will get back to me today. They said they can do for a 6 inch barrel.
So, here's hoping.
The load I am shooting is Hornady XTP and HAP bullets
with 13.2 of AA9. Acording to LoadData my velocity of 1265 out of a 6 inch
is right in the ball park.
So, here is hoping that with their parts I won't have to chase brass as much.
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Springfield Armory has a 6" 10mm but I don't know if their recoil spring would work, or where to find out. I didn't see any parts on their website. Les Baer also makes a 6" 10mm, but I don't see recoil springs on their parts list.
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Well, the gentleman/owner of Sprinco called me (great response time), asked for some measurements of the R1. He said that he had the item in stock, and the best news is that with his part, I can use regular 5 inch springs. With his part(s), I had him send along 2 different weight springs to try per his recommendation. I really like dealing with small companies that know what to do.
With his part, there is a additional spring that is internal of the guide rod, which comes into play at the end of the slide stroke. Therefore I can use 18 or 20 # springs for the initial start of the slide motion.
It sounds interesting, and I have to try the 18 or 20 to see which works best.
Sigh, that means I have to go shooting again, DARN.
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I would use the heaviest spring that works consistently. That and new Shok-Buffs will keep the slide from battering the frame as bad.
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Well, I got the parts this afternoon, and installed them. Very interesting design. I can now use 5 inch coil springs, not the flat springs. The front of the guide rod has an allen head screw that retains the front section of the two piece rod so you remove it, and so you can install it. You separate the front piece from the rod. Put the rod into the slide as usual, put the slide on the lower and install the slide lock lever. Then install the front barrel bushing, as normal. Install the now 5 inch spring into the pistol. Install the extra supplied long spring cap in, and rotate the bushing to lock in the spring cap. Now, using the supplied allen wrench, install and screw it into the new spring guide rod just snug. When I tried to rack the slide, NO Way! I thought I screwed up, so I called Sprinco for advice.
I guess I was stupid, but I did not realize that at the very end of the stroke, the very heavy spring inside the new rod had to be compressed slowly to the rear to compress enough for the slide lock to lock open the slide. I mean that it required a lot more strength to get it there, but I did. This springs purpose is really slow the slide down at the end of the stroke. Also, I can use any 5 inch coil spring now. Springco recommended either a 18# or 20#, which ever one the will allow the slide to lock open at last round, and that the pistol functions correctly.
By the way, I have seen a lot of machine work, and the workmanship on this is beautiful.
So after all this explanation, I will go shooting tomorrow to see how it works.
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Sounds good, but the installation sounds harder than when I used a 2-piece guide rod. I would put the spring on the rear half of the guide rod. The spring had a front and rear end to it, and the rear end held tight to the guide rod. I put the barrel bushing, barrel, and spring with guide in, put the slide on the frame while still upside down, put the slide release in, put it on safe so the slide couldn't move, pushed the recoil plug in and rotated the barrel bushing, then installed the front half of the guide rod. It was just like assembling a standard 1911 except for screwing in the front half of the guide rod to finish. When the slide is upside down the barrel link doesn't move because there's no tension on it from the recoil spring, plus the barrel and slide stayed locked together every time. And with the thumb safety on you can push as hard as you want to on the plug, the slide isn't going to budge. It requires a lot less effort than trying to compress the spring with the slide back. Also, you can use your finger or any handy tool to push the recoil spring and plug in without that stupid guide rod limiting you in any way. I usually push it in farther than it needs to go with a screwdriver blade stuck in the hole.
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Well, back to the remington r1 hunter saga.
I did get the Springco 2 piece spring guide rod assembly, with springs 18 and 20#.
The assembly seems to work well, but it did not correct my problem, which is slinging the fired brass
a long ways (looooong ways). But I did look on utube about this, and one of the possible problems was/is a extractor way out of spec. Boy, is it out of spec. It should be able to hold a piece of fired brass in place, under the extractor, and you should be able to shake the slide gently, and the brass should stay in place. Well, not with mine, there is a lot of gap between the extractor and the face of the slide. So I removed the extractor, and it is not anything like a ed brown, wilson, kimber extractor. I invested in a Weigand extractor adjusting tool, and their gauge set. It basically is a small fixture that allows you to form/bend the extractor in predetermined amounts. Not the Remington extractor. I have a Ed Brown extractor coming tomorrow, and will see if I can get it to work. By the way, I checked both of my Kimbers with the gauge, and their extractors are adjusted correctly.
So, here is hoping to be able to correct the problem. My gunsmith friend said that I could try all this, or just not bother, and search for the fired brass. But I guess I am just too stubborn (maybe stupid?), and I hope I can fix this. The pistol shoots well, not as good as my Glock Mod 40 with all of its mods, but very decently. The difference between stubborn men and stubborn boys, the price of their toys.
Just my venting.
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Robert... I haven't read all your comments, but you can slow down the slide considerably by changing the radius of the firing pin stop as it cams the trigger back... you might try a squared off firing pin stop with no radius...
if the rear of the spring tunnel on the slide is machined through, and the spring plug can be inserted from the rear, a captured spring is a lot easier to work with on a 1911 with a heavy recoil spring ( I ran 22# springs on my .45)... lock the assembled unit to the rear, and mark the bottom of the guide rod just in front of the bushing... drill a small hole large enough for a paper clip piece of wire bent in an "L" shape to be inserted... to use, lock the slide back, insert the bent wire, slowly release the slide stop, and remove the slide... the slide will remove with the captured guide and spring in one piece, just pull the captured system out.... to install just the opposite.... when the slide is locked to the rear the bent wire should fall out (make sure to drill the hole vertical in the guide rod)
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I didn't know an out of spec extractor could make your brass fly farther. I knew it could make the distance less and/or really inconsistent. The slide moving too fast can make it fly farther too. A square bottom firing pin stop like Les mentioned will slow it down and so will a stiffer recoil spring. An oversize firing pin stop like EGW and Wilson Combat offer, when properly fitted, will keep the extractor from rotating or otherwise moving.
http://www.egwguns.com/1911-parts/o/s-firing-pin-stop-ser-70-38/9/40-blue/
If I ever had extractor problems I thought I might try something like the Aftec Advanced Competition Extractor. Instead of being made of spring steel it's made of much harder steel and uses 2 small coil springs for tension. The extractor being made of harder steel will last longer and the coil springs will hold their tension longer. If the springs ever get weak you can replace them instead of replacing the whole extractor.
https://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Aftec-Advanced-Competition-Extractor-P53.aspx
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Well, after all the hate and discontent that the Remington R1 has caused me, I finally called Remington and told them about the extractor issue and other problems.
The reason I was reluctant to send it to them (under warranty) is that I sent it to them when I first got the pistol to correct the front sight problem. They sent it to some "gunsmith" who did not do anything to correct the problem. I was very specific about the problem, and he said he fired it. BULL.
Anyway, when I called Remington this time, and described the problem about the extractor issues, they want it back there. So they are sending a Fed X package to send it to them, at their cost.
That was a surprise.
Also, when I asked about who would do any repairs, they said that the previous "gunsmith" was no longer used, and it was in house now. They had several complaints about him.
So here is hoping they correct the issue. If not, it is gone.
I have the Glock model 40, mos, and after all the modifications were done, it shoots extremely well, and is far more accurate than the R1. I have a gen 4 model 35, mos, 40SW, with the Leupold Delta point Pro sight (2.5 dot), and it shoots so VERY well, that when I thought about the 10mm, I started looking for the model 40 mos. I could not find one at that time, so there was the Remington R1. I then ordered the Model 40 mos, and after all the mods, (edge trigger, kkm comp barrel, like all the Glocks that I have, now 3) I have another great shooting pistol. I wish I could say the say thing about the R1. It may still happen, but at this point I am not optimistic.
I have found that a Hornady 180 grain either XTP or HAP with 13.2 grains of AA9 gives 1276 fps chronographed out of a 6 inch barrel, avg of 15 rounds, twice, from the Glock, with no pressure signs with the Starline brass. I really like shooting the 10mm with the Glock, and recoil is no problem, mainly because of the weight of the pistol, and the Comp helps with the whip.
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I hate to say it....but that Glock looks nice (for a Glock, of course). I hope that Remington does you right on the R1. I have a Kimber Eclipse in 10MM that works surprisingly well...maybe a plan B for you without the long barrel?
Or....I see the good people at Cylinder and Slide have done long slide 10MM in the past on a Caspian frame: https://cylinder-slide.com/Item/0057 (https://cylinder-slide.com/Item/0057) . Probably fairly pricey...but good work always is.