The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: Dirty Bob on May 10, 2020, 11:39:34 PM
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I've always wanted a "conversion" revolver to shoot primarily with black powder cartridges, and I've finally taken steps in that direction! I purchased a Kirst Konverter and am shopping for a "Sheriff" length Colt 1860 by Pietta to use the cylinder in. I'm looking at Taylor's as my source, as they seem to have a good reputation. I blame Michael Bane for this quest, as he's featured open tops in videos before and has talked about them in podcasts! They look so fun!
There's also no revolver that I like the look and feel of more than the 1860 Colts. They just seem perfect, though I'd like to try something a little more compact, hence the Sheriff length barrel.
I love the .45 Colt the way Mr. Bane loves the .44 Magnum. I'm looking forward to loading some ammo with "Holy Black" and having lots of fun at the range! I have prior experience with cap and ball, but I'd like to try BP cartridges at long last.
Does anyone have any suggestions for me in this endeavor? It's not for any purpose higher than having fun and shooting a "hipster" revolver with friends. I may go ahead and make my own "slim jim" holster for it.
I'm very interested in learning more about these revolvers. I have Mike Cumpston's book on percussion revolvers. If there's any source that would guide me in checking out the revolver's action and doing any needed minor adjustments for reliability, please let me know.
Respectfully,
Dirty Bob
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Check out this website, https://mikebeliveau.com/
Mike has a lot of good information on C&B revolvers and I believe Open top cartridge guns. He has lots of videos as well.
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Check the Italian companies.
I THINK Pedersoli has a Thuer conversion reproduction.
Originals turn up pretty regular at Rock Island auctions but they are pretty expensive and I would not trust one to be safe with out serious examination.
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A couple vids about various types, I love sharing these, I think Forgotten Weapons, and C&Rsenal are great resources.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWa6lie6t4g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_JUfUVAxvk
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Check out Taylor's Firearms
https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/hand-guns/blackpowder-revolvers.html (https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/hand-guns/blackpowder-revolvers.html)
Not all companies that make reproduction open tops make, or have, cartridge conversions for them. After research I confirmed my uneducated guess that it is due to strength of the frames. Back in the 19th century they didn't have the concern. You had as much chance of blowing up a cartridge gun as you did a non-cartridge, but when smokeless powder entered the party, that all changed.
Today, if you look at the different manufacturers you will find that some have conversions available and some do not, and they will clearly state that there is no conversion available in many cases. Maybe you will find an aftermarket for that revolver, but if the manufacturer chooses to make conversions for some and not others, do you want to fight them on it?
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Mike generally they were Cap and ball frames manufactured with the conversion cylinders.
The switching was usually back to cap and ball because the conversions really weren't that good.
No one would have wasted time on them if S&W didn't have the Cartridge cylinder tied up with patents.
Things like "conversion revolvers, and Tit fire cartridges were lame attempts to just stay in business till Rollin White's patent ran out.
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Let me say up front that one of the real strengths of these forums is the quality of the discussion. Take a look: every single reply was helpful in some way. Following Majer’s suggestion, I read Mike Beliveau’s awesome piece on self-defense with a cap-n-ball revolver. Buried in that article was some great info on barrel length vs velocity with black powder. It really helped me decide on what barrel length I want.
I already have a Colt-pattern .45 Colt conversion kit (for Pietta) from Kirst and have been deciding on the host pistol. The grip frame got me to choose the “.44 Navy” over the 1860 Army. I don’t have big hands, so a larger grip doesn’t help me. I’m thinking I want at least a 6-inch barrel, maybe 7.5 inches, and I’ll probably make my own front sight.
The videos that tombogan03884 linked were a lot of fun. I always enjoy Ian’s videos.
Now the bad news: I called Taylor’s yesterday, and their Pietta Navy is sold out, so I’m on the list, waiting to buy my revolver. It’sOk, though, as it gives me time to read more, lay in some springs and other spare parts, and to be ready for when it’s in stock again.
This is a project just for fun that I’ve wanted to try for years, so a small delay is no big deal.
All my best,
Dirty Bob
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I like odd actions. I REALLY wish I'd bought a La Matt back when the repro's were $180, now they're $ 1800. :o
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Let me say up front that one of the real strengths of these forums is the quality of the discussion.
Indeed, and I'll stack the depth of real knowledge on this one against many of them with five times the membership.
And can you imagine the fluff you'd get on the book of face if you asked?
Your project sounds interesting.........and why not have fun? ;D
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When I was about 14 my Dad and I had a pair of Navy revolvers, we were siting loading them, This Mic Mac we knew was watching for a while, finally say's "How the hell did we lose against that ?" ;D
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You might find this article interesting....
The Road to Perfection with the 1851 Navy Conversion
https://www.cascity.com/the-road-to-perfection-with-the-1851-navy-conversion/4035/
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I’m not prone to jealousy, but WOW! Thank you, Marshal, that’s a great article! My all-time favorite open tops are the Merwin Hulberts. Out of my price range, but they’re awesome! 8)
See the movie “Bone Tomahawk” for a scene where one is reloaded “on the clock.”
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What a mechanism.
That mechanical fit is awesome. ;D
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What a mechanism.
That mechanical fit is awesome. ;D
That really was amazing when the vacuum it created pulled the barrel back up. Other than being slow to reload, a modern reproduction of a 3rd model with the shorter barrel looks like the kind of gun you could use for EDC. Here's a video of Ian with a teatfire revolver. Most people pronounce teat "teet" nowadays but I prefer the alternate, and equally valid, pronunciation "tit". I remember Frank Zappa calling tits "mammalian protuberances" in one of his songs but tits is so much easier to say. Here's the Moore mammalian protuberance-fire revolver. :)
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/teat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WANLhJ-dvY&feature=emb_logo
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Wow, what a clever little revolver design! Ian does a great job explaining, and I just learned about a revolver type that I'd never heard of before.
Update:
I was able to purchase a Dixie Pietta kit for the 1851 in .44 caliber at the beginning of summer. Time has been short, so I'm making slow progress on the frame, which needs some filing on the flats and some sanding on the back of the recoil shield. I bought a great little front sight from Dixie, so I'm thinking of a 5-inch barrel with a new front sight.
You can see the grip and grip frame also need some reshaping and polishing. Lots of work to do, but at least I have a revolver to work on! I'm thinking of something that looks like a scaled-up version of one of the Colt Pocket models without a loading lever. I haven't decided if I'll add an ejector rod, or just go "Outlaw" and have a cartridge revolver with neither loading lever nor ejector, like something a backwoods gunsmith might have put together.
Looking close, you can see some of the rough edges, tool marks and other fun parts that I have the chance to work on! Since I have to hog out a channel in the side of the frame to allow access to the loading gate, the kit sorta' made sense. Besides, it was all I could find at the time, with the coronavirus ravaging Italy. Things haven't gotten any better since then: the supply of cap-and-ball revolvers has been overwhelmed by the demand, along with almost everything else gun-related.
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Watch the C&Rsenal videos on the Reich's revolver, or Russian Nagant.
Mae spends a good bit of time bitching about the lack of casing pusher outer. ;D
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I have an unfired Teatfire cartridge in my collection somewhere, will have to dig it out and try to post a picture.
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I have an unfired Teatfire cartridge in my collection somewhere, will have to dig it out and try to post a picture.
You should post about your collection.
Every one shows off their guns, but things like cartridges are a lot more rare.
577/450, .43 Spanish, Teat fire, Pin fire, Who ever sees these ?
Clips, chargers and magazines are another subject for collecting we never hear about.
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It's not that big of a collection, more like odds and ends that I accumulated over the years, But I'll try to post some of the more interesting ones.
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Not sure how the Picture will come out,
But it's 7.62 Nagant.
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Looks kind of like Wilson ;D