The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: billt on May 26, 2020, 06:06:30 PM

Title: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: billt on May 26, 2020, 06:06:30 PM
I have a older Homelite XL chainsaw that runs on a 32-1 gas/oil mix. I like running the Tru-Fuel, but the 32 ounce bottle I have is pre mixed at 40-1. My question is how much 2 cycle oil would I have to add to a 32 ounce bottle of 40-1 mix, in order to increase the mixture to 32-1? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 26, 2020, 06:25:21 PM
To bad it's not the same as the ratio of gin to tonic, This crew would have it down pat.   ;D
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: billt on May 26, 2020, 06:31:03 PM
I'm figuring in a 32 ounce bottle of 40-1 mix, there are 0.8 ounces of oil. So if I added an additional .2 ounce, (say a 1/4 ounce to be safe), that would bring it up to 32-1. Because 1 ounce of oil in 32 ounces of fuel = 32-1. But my mind has gotten lazy since I retired.
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: Solus on May 26, 2020, 06:38:44 PM
I say .25 oz.

32 to 1   is 8oz to each .25 oz.   

so going from 32 to 40 is adding another 8oz..which would need another .25oz

Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 26, 2020, 06:39:40 PM
I had a Super XL before I went in the Marines.
Good saw back then. To much oil will make it smoke, to little will cook the motor, I think your math is close enough, but like you I've gotten lazy.
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: alfsauve on May 26, 2020, 07:51:02 PM
I want to go back to the gin and tonic
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: Rastus on May 26, 2020, 08:03:22 PM
Premix?  Add 0.8 ounces and call it good. 40:1 would be 25% less and 20% more is looking at it from the other perspective.  0.64 may be right on...but a little more won't do more than cause you to clean a fouled plug.
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 26, 2020, 08:26:36 PM
I want to go back to the gin and tonic


See what I mean.   ;D
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: TAB on May 26, 2020, 10:22:16 PM
Me i got my degree in math.


So let me break it down.

A 40:1 mix has 1 once per 40 oz of gas.  So you take 32 and divide it by 41. ( remember 40 :1 mix is 40 oz + 1 oz)  So you have .78 oz of oil in that bottle.  You would need to add .22 oz.


All this is assuming you mix the oil and gas perfectly.  There are 2 table spoons per oz so if you add 1/2 table spoon of oil you are good.
So the quater oz is correct.
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: billt on May 27, 2020, 06:37:20 AM
Me i got my degree in math.


So let me break it down.

A 40:1 mix has 1 once per 40 oz of gas.  So you take 32 and divide it by 41. ( remember 40 :1 mix is 40 oz + 1 oz)  So you have .78 oz of oil in that bottle.  You would need to add .22 oz.


All this is assuming you mix the oil and gas perfectly.  There are 2 table spoons per oz so if you add 1/2 table spoon of oil you are good.
So the quater oz is correct.

Thanks TAB. I'm thinking of getting one of those plastic syringes at the drug store. (The kind you use to get liquid medicine down a dogs throat). They are graduated in CC's and ML's. So I would have to convert ounces to both of those. But it would be easier and more precise.

I wish I knew the exact capacity of the fuel tank. (I downloaded the owners manual, but it doesn't have it). That way I could treat it by the tankful. This saw doesn't get run a lot, and all of my other 2-cycle stuff is modern Echo, (power blower & gas hedge trimmer). And they both run 50-1. I use 40-1 just to give them a little more lube. This 50-1 stuff is all brought on by the government, and the EPA because of emissions. Not for the betterment of the engine. Just like using all of these water thin oils in the new cars, to boost their fleet mileage.
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 27, 2020, 08:00:41 AM
All I remember is "lowest common denominator. I'd be sitting on the ground surrounded by a whole shitload of shot glasses,
while I drank from the bottle.   ;D
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: TAB on May 27, 2020, 12:11:25 PM
All I remember is "lowest common denominator. I'd be sitting on the ground surrounded by a whole shitload of shot glasses,
while I drank from the bottle.   ;D
after that i bet you will plead the 5th as to gow much oil you added.
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: Solus on May 27, 2020, 01:47:10 PM
Ok....explain where I am wrong.

If I have an 8oz bottle of something and I want to add something to it to get a 32 to 1 ratio...

So I divide 8/32 and get .25...so I would add .25 of the second liquid and get 32 to 1...correct?


Ahh.,..I see....it is a 8oz bottle, so there is not 8os of oil...


Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 27, 2020, 02:21:35 PM
Pass downwind and they can tell what it was a 5th of   ;D

Throw more Brandy !   ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhIH1R1Cbho
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: billt on May 27, 2020, 02:31:53 PM
This is the saw after I got it all cleaned up and running on fresh fuel. It was sitting on the shelf for over 25 years collecting dirt and dust.

(https://i.imgur.com/oZSpUwf.jpg?1)
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: Timothy on May 28, 2020, 03:35:04 PM
It’s easy broken down to ml but for the sake of being expedited, TAB is correct!

The metric system has its good points.
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: TAB on May 28, 2020, 05:24:15 PM
It’s easy broken down to ml but for the sake of being expedited, TAB is correct!

The metric system has its good points.
  there are 2 types of countrys in the world.   Those that landed on the moon and those that use the metric system.
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 28, 2020, 06:02:39 PM
We need Burmese and Liberian Astronauts for the next Moon shot.   ;D
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: alfsauve on May 29, 2020, 07:56:27 AM

Why is it that some of the smartest groups of people, scientist and engineers, are the ones pushing metric system because it's so simple?

While simpleton's, like me, just know instinctively that if a 7/16" is a little tight I need to go to a 29/64"
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 29, 2020, 10:42:30 AM
Alf, I think, from experience, that it's all habit.
It's all about what you use regular.
Take the most mathematically challenged person you know, and short them an hours pay,  ;D
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: Timothy on May 29, 2020, 11:30:27 AM
Manufacturing other folks stuff, a good portion for Europe and Asian markets forces one to work in both systems.  Like a second language it becomes quite natural.  Being out of it a year now, it becomes more of a chore.
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 29, 2020, 04:44:08 PM
You retired now Tim ?
I can work with metric, or I can work with English .
One of the companies I worked for in CA did prototypes for UC Davis, X axis dimensions were inch Y axis were in metric.
The words fail me. English just doesn't have words filthy enough for some things   >:(
But I made do    ;D
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: TAB on May 29, 2020, 06:58:19 PM
I delt with uc d a lot... lets just say if you dont have any thing nice to say, dont say anything at all
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: Timothy on May 30, 2020, 01:14:15 AM
You retired now Tim ?
I can work with metric, or I can work with English .
One of the companies I worked for in CA did prototypes for UC Davis, X axis dimensions were inch Y axis were in metric.
The words fail me. English just doesn't have words filthy enough for some things   >:(
But I made do    ;D

More or less!

I sell guns now!
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 30, 2020, 08:05:44 AM
Did you move ?
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: Timothy on May 30, 2020, 11:09:32 AM
Several times.  Shop closed, left us owed $300k in unpaid salary, $6k for me!

Decided I was done dealing with over educated asshat managers, applied for cheap Veteran/Ol folks housing and got right in! 

When the economy opens back up, I’ll be back at the gun counter at our local Cabela’s.  I’m high risk so I’m collecting unemployment with the additional $600 from Uncle Sam!

I’m filling up my mattress for a rainy day! 
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 30, 2020, 11:52:54 AM

When the economy opens back up, I’ll be back at the gun counter at our local Cabela’s.  I’m high risk so I’m collecting unemployment with the additional $600 from Uncle Sam!

I’m filling up my mattress for a rainy day! 

Wouldn't do me any good, I'd be to likely to take it in store credit  ;D
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: Timothy on May 30, 2020, 12:33:58 PM
Our discount is the only 7% on firearms and ammo...since Bass Pro took over the place has gone downhill...
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 30, 2020, 04:35:49 PM
Our discount is the only 7% on firearms and ammo...since Bass Pro took over the place has gone downhill...

That was one thing about Thompson Center. The pay sucked, but employee discount was 50% on anything they made I forget what is was on other branded stuff but it was less.
Great insurance too, my first heart attack only cost me $100 out of pocket on a $65,000 bill.
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: BAC on May 30, 2020, 07:59:19 PM
My wife works at the shop that used to house Cabot Guns. When she first started there they had a ridiculously cheap employee purchase price on them. Unfortunately we couldn’t afford one at the time.  Now they’re made over in Indiana and that ship has sailed. Oh well, at least I got a Cabot t-shirt.
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 31, 2020, 08:21:39 AM
BAC  Sounds like you need to find her a job in Indiana .    ;D
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: BAC on May 31, 2020, 11:07:49 AM
BAC  Sounds like you need to find her a job in Indiana .    ;D

As soon as we don’t have to worry about in-state tuition rates.  ;)
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: PegLeg45 on May 31, 2020, 03:52:20 PM
My brain is wired for machine shop and carpentry....Thousandths and fractions men, thousandths and fractions.  ;D
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: BAC on May 31, 2020, 03:53:51 PM
My brain is wired for machine shop and carpentry....Thousandths and fractions men, thousandths and fractions.  ;D

Thousandths?  That’s carpentry. We do tenths at my shop.
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: PegLeg45 on May 31, 2020, 03:59:40 PM
Thousandths?  That’s carpentry. We do tenths at my shop.

Where I worked, we held tolerances down to thousandths on a lot of in-house parts. When you're polishing a spool for a servo control, .005" too much and it won't work.
Some of the equipment I tuned-up held alignment specs down to .010" clearances.  ;D

I've also done a lot of metal fabrication and general carpentry/wood working in the past....so fractions were the norm.  8)
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 31, 2020, 04:12:29 PM
Wow. Ya'll are a bunch of hacker's   ;D

Some of the parts I made are smaller than the tolerances you are talking about.   ;D
Biopsy cups 1 mm total length,  Tolerance was +0.00005/-0.0
Sheet metal we never did anything with more than +/- 0.005  +/- 1 degree.
Used to piss the old man off, he'd say cut me a block about this long.
I've got no depth perception give me a f@#$ing dimension.
We didn't work together well.   ;D
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: TAB on May 31, 2020, 04:37:34 PM
My last major contract with the dod.   The exterior of yhe creates were +/- 1/16"   the cradles inside were . 001"  yet they wanted them lined with felt that had a tolerance  of .005"  yeah, it was fun working with the engineers to explain to them how with in 2' on the same roll the felt coyld vari by that much.  Then they said f that give us neoprene, which was down to .002" from thier manufactor.  Then they said f it hard rubber.  Cracked me up.
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: PegLeg45 on May 31, 2020, 06:55:48 PM
Wow. Ya'll are a bunch of hacker's   ;D

Some of the parts I made are smaller than the tolerances you are talking about.   ;D
Biopsy cups 1 mm total length,  Tolerance was +0.00005/-0.0
Sheet metal we never did anything with more than +/- 0.005  +/- 1 degree.

Used to piss the old man off, he'd say cut me a block about this long.
I've got no depth perception give me a f@#$ing dimension.
We didn't work together well.   ;D


We never needed that kind of precision. We had a dedicated machine shop for dies and tooling, and they also had two guys that made repair parts for us.
If the machine shop was down for the weekend or holiday, I was the only person from Maint/Engineering that was allowed to use the mills or lathes to make emergency parts. If we had an obsolete hydraulic valve on an old machine that needed a new spool or a piston for a cylinder I could knock one out fairly quick. Most tolerances on stuff like that I'd hold to +/- .003".

In your arena, .030" is BIG....but on a 2500 Ton extrusion press .030" clearance all the way around the stem kept things from getting ugly.  ;D  ;D


Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: Big Frank on May 31, 2020, 07:16:24 PM
Why is it that some of the smartest groups of people, scientist and engineers, are the ones pushing metric system because it's so simple?

While simpleton's, like me, just know instinctively that if a 7/16" is a little tight I need to go to a 29/64"

Not many tool kits have 29/32" wrenches, or drill bits, and most stores don't sell nuts or bolts that size. It's a lot simpler it the only wrenches you need are in whole numbers like 8, 9, 10, 11, 12mm, with no weird fractions like 29/64 or 15/32. Plus numbers are easier to add and subtract when they aren't fractions. Half of the time people use decimal measurements instead of fractions, and if you're going to convert to decimals anyway, why not use a decimal system to begin with, like metric? When you want to change from one unit of measurement to another in metric you only have to move the decimal point, instead of dividing by 12 or multiplying by 36, etc. You don't need a calculator to do it, and the only thing you need a pencil and paper for is to move the decimal point, not long division or any other such nonsense that a lot of people can't even do. And no converting "standard" measurements to the worldwide standard and back, introducing unnecessary possibilities for errors that sometimes have disastrous effects.

If a 10mm wrench is too small, I try a 12mm. I don't have to worry about whether or not there's anywhere on the planet I can get a 10 29/64mm wrench, and at what cost, or how long it will take to get one. If 10mm is too small and 12mm is too big, I know it's 11mm and not one of 128 sizes from 10-12mm 1/64mm increments. Unless it's something made to the "English" measurements, which the English don't even use, with a  metric label slapped onto it like 1/4" hex head screws that say 6.35 or 6.4mm on the label.
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 01, 2020, 10:48:03 AM
.
If the machine shop was down for the weekend or holiday, I was the only person from Maint/Engineering that was allowed to use the mills or lathes to make emergency parts. If we had an obsolete hydraulic valve on an old machine that needed a new spool or a piston for a cylinder I could knock one out fairly quick. Most tolerances on stuff like that I'd hold to +/- .003".


They would have freaking LOVED you at the old Thompson Center Arms  ;D
The head of Maint. was a Co founder of the original Company.
His hobby was restoring antique machines, when he ran out of barn space he leased them to the Company    ;D
The 2 Blanchard grinders I roughed out Contender receiver's on had serial numbers 0018 and 0020 made in 1918. They had Frankfort Arsenal Data plates, they had been used to make Dog leg Enfields.
That was the stuff that got burned up in the big fire in 1995.

Big Frank, I use caliber conversions to cheat. 6.35 =1/4 inch, 10 mm is a little under 1/5 then I wing it from there   ;D
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: Timothy on June 01, 2020, 01:05:29 PM
10 mm is .3937”.

Just over 3/8”
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: alfsauve on June 01, 2020, 01:23:21 PM
I want to get back to the gin and tonic thing.










I lie.  Gin and vermouth.
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 01, 2020, 01:25:55 PM
Crap. I was going to suggest Ginger Beer, but I don't even know what Vermouth is.   ;D
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: Solus on June 01, 2020, 02:34:33 PM
Isn't that the state just west of NH?  :D
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: PegLeg45 on June 01, 2020, 03:45:17 PM
They would have freaking LOVED you at the old Thompson Center Arms  ;D
The head of Maint. was a Co founder of the original Company.
His hobby was restoring antique machines, when he ran out of barn space he leased them to the Company    ;D
The 2 Blanchard grinders I roughed out Contender receiver's on had serial numbers 0018 and 0020 made in 1918. They had Frankfort Arsenal Data plates, they had been used to make Dog leg Enfields.
That was the stuff that got burned up in the big fire in 1995.

There was always a waiting list a mile long to buy the decommissioned machines from the machine shop. Sometimes we could bid for them and if the machine was over a certain age, we could buy them for scrap at .05 cents per pound. I got a couple of band-saws for around $30 each one time, but never was far enough up the line for mills or lathes.
One of the machinists was a neighbor up the road and had a side business as a gunsmith. He supplied his entire shop by buying old saws, mills and lathes and putting new gibs and ways on them. Then all he had to do was either convert them to single phase or buy a three phase converter to run them. Once he retired from the company, he was set up to gunsmith full time (he's the guy who straightened the .410 barrel my dad bent).


Isn't that the state just west of NH?  :D


Indeed.  ;D
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 01, 2020, 07:42:22 PM
OOOHH ! You're talking about the New Hampshire Grant's.
That's a lawsuit that hasn't been settled since 1757.

Pegleg, Yes, other than bearings the cast parts will last forever.
Unless you burn a building on them.
That pretty much f%$ks them up.   ;D
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: billt on June 03, 2020, 08:48:30 PM
OK, another math problem. If I have a quart of fuel mixed at 50-1, and I want to increase the mix to 32-1, how much additional oil do I need to add?.....

The reason for all of this is because Tru-Fuel only comes premixed at a 40-1, or a 50-1 ratio. So you have to custom blend it for anything else. They also have a 4-cycle fuel that contains no oil. I like running the Tru-Fuel because it contains zero Ethanol, and is 92 octane. And it's purpose blended for small engines. And as I mentioned before, it has a 2 year minimum shelf life. VP Racing also makes a similar product, as does Stihl. But it is also blended in only 40-1 and 50-1. The VP product is 94 octane.
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: billt on June 03, 2020, 08:56:02 PM
I came up with 32 ounces divided by 50 = .64 ounces of oil per quart. 32-1 equals 1 ounce of oil per quart. 1.00 - .64 = .36 ounces, (10.64 ML.), additional oil to be added to boost the mixture from 50-1 to 32-1. At least that's how I figure it. What say you guys?
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 03, 2020, 09:49:52 PM
Bill, I don't think any one is home   ;D
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: billt on June 04, 2020, 03:30:48 AM
I typed it in before I shut down for the night. Perhaps when you guys have had your morning coffee, you can check my arithmetic before I start mixing.

I bought a new 2-stroke Echo hedge trimmer, and I've been reading up, and watching videos on 2-strokes. A lot of small engine mechanics are telling people to NEVER run new 2-stroke lawn and garden equipment on the owners manual recommended 50-1 ratio. It's all a smokescreen by the EPA for lower emissions, nothing more. (The EPA HATES 2-strokes, and wants them phased out). Most of these guys are telling people, it's usually the cause for every non running 2-stroke that comes in they have to pull apart. Most all that have been run on 50-1, have had little to no compression, along with scored pistons and cylinder walls. Many of these engines have frozen piston rings after as little as 50 hours of run time. (Or else just over the warranty period). Some manufacturers are even suggesting 100-1 gas / oil ratio, so they can sell in Canada and Europe, along with states like California, that have stricter emissions laws.

A lot of 2-stroke outboards, and personal watercraft have run 50-1 for years. But they are water cooled, which is a big difference from an air cooled chainsaw or string trimmer, screaming at 10K+ RPM for hours on end in 100F+ heat.

It all makes perfect sense, because a lot of manufacturers are now calling for 50-1 gas /oil ratio's on the exact same engines they were selling just a few years ago, that they called for 32-1, or even 16-1 on some string trimmers and saws that constantly run wide open, (10,000 RPM or higher).

The only downside to a richer oil mixture, is a bit more smoke, and spark plugs that won't last quite as long. Plugs are cheap, and take 5 minutes to change out. (A lot of karting racers have been running 16-1 for years... And still do). I paid good money for this stuff, and I want it to last. It's bad enough the F'ing government dictates how much water I have to use to flush my toilet. I'll be damned if they're going to tell me I have to burn up my engines faster, just to keep a smile on some bureaucrats face..... Rant off.  >:(   
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 04, 2020, 08:14:23 AM
Oil is cheap, (at the moment)
More is better. 
Like Rum in Rum cake.   ;D
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: alfsauve on June 04, 2020, 08:33:49 AM
Oil is cheap, (at the moment)
More is better. 
Like Rum in Rum cake.   ;D

What happened to all the rum?   

I love rum.
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: Solus on June 04, 2020, 11:13:37 AM
https://pussersrum.com/ (https://pussersrum.com/)
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: alfsauve on June 04, 2020, 01:09:21 PM
When I was 14 my family made a trip to the Bahamas and my dad let me sample rum at the stores, not that I was an alcoholic or anything.   I was able to talk him into bringing back a bottle of what I think was labeled just "Nassau Rum".   Sadly I don't remember ever getting to drink any after we got home. ;)   I can't find that exact brand.   A lot of rums say they're "Nassau Rum" these days.   Maybe I just need to take Miss Kitty on a trip to Nassau.
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: BAC on June 04, 2020, 01:42:49 PM
Can’t drink rum after that one night in college.
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: Big Frank on June 12, 2020, 08:14:35 PM
They would have freaking LOVED you at the old Thompson Center Arms  ;D
The head of Maint. was a Co founder of the original Company.
His hobby was restoring antique machines, when he ran out of barn space he leased them to the Company    ;D
The 2 Blanchard grinders I roughed out Contender receiver's on had serial numbers 0018 and 0020 made in 1918. They had Frankfort Arsenal Data plates, they had been used to make Dog leg Enfields.
That was the stuff that got burned up in the big fire in 1995.

Big Frank, I use caliber conversions to cheat. 6.35 =1/4 inch, 10 mm is a little under 1/5 then I wing it from there   ;D

10mm is over 3/8". That's the problem with having to make conversions. It's so easy to screw them up that you're going to do it sooner or later. It sure would be nice to never have to make any conversions. To never have fractional sizes like 32nds and 64ths on your tools and hardware (except for things like drill bits). To only have to buy one set of tools instead of two sets of everything. Not knowing gun calibers you can still get close to the decimal size if you multiply the mm by 4 then divide by 100. Examples: 5m, 5x4=20, 5mm~=.20". 9mm, 9x4=36, 9mm~=.36".
Title: Re: Who's Good At Math ?
Post by: Big Frank on June 12, 2020, 08:22:44 PM
I want to get back to the gin and tonic thing.










I lie.  Gin and vermouth.


Make it bourbon and sweet vermouth with a dash of bitters and I'm with you all the way. With a maraschino cherry s'il vous plaît. If you're out of cherries, no biggie, I can rough it.