The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: Big Frank on November 07, 2020, 10:50:56 PM
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I saw this 3" .45 ACP AR pistol upper with a 4" M-Lok handguard on sale online a couple of days ago and it made me wonder why anyone would buy it? I have a .45 ACP pistol with a 3" barrel. The overall length is 6.5" and the height is 4.5". By the time you put this upper on a lower you would end up with a pistol about two times as tall and three to four times as long (six to eight times the size). And you would get sub-compact pistol velocity and energy from an SBR size package. That may make some kind of sense but not to me. I just don't get it. If it used at least a 5" or 6" barrel it wouldn't be stupid like a 3" barrel. JMHO. The only advantage I can see is that you could use bigger mags with an AR lower than you can with my pistol, but if you're using Glock mags you could just as well use those in a Glock pistol.
So what do you think? You can't wait to get your new 3" upper? Or like me, you're wondering WTF??? ???
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It would have to be designed from the get-go to be a suppressor host, right? That would still make it very compact. Otherwise, like you said, what's the point?
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No place to safely put your support hand. Better off with a real pistol.
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I agree 100% Tom. My hand is just over 4" wide. The barrel is only 3" long, and part of that length is inside the upper. It didn't take me long to do the math. ;D If it didn't have a 4" handguard and a blast I could see a real problem there. As far as suppressing it goes, maybe if you wanted an overall barrel and suppressor length of 7" or so with one of the mini suppressors it would work. But it would still be bigger and bulkier than a pistol.
ETA: Maybe they made it just because they could, knowing that sooner or later someone is bound to buy it. George Carlin once said something like, if you nail together two pieces of $h!t that have never been nailed together before, some schmuck will buy it. I think we're looking at those two pieces of $h!t right here. Someone will buy it.
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LOL The Pet Rock proves THAT. ;D
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I don't see much use in it, myself.
My whole thought process for an AR pistol is to get rifle power in a "slightly smaller than a rifle" package. I'm willing to give up some velocity for the added power factor and the ability to set someone on fire from across the room. ;D
Putting a pistol caliber in something that size is a waste of weight....I'd rather carry a regular pistol and make the difference in spare ammo.
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I agree with Chuck.
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3" barrel, 20 round mags. I had to download a program to rotate the 2 images so I could splice them together. There's maybe 1/10" missing where I joined them together but other than that it should be to scale. The barrel in the pic measures 3" on my 24" monitor and that's as close to life size as it gets. Much handier in my opinion.
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Not a 3" barrel, but 4" .45 ACP barrel is available from Bear Creek Arsenal in case you want to build your own SBR. Here's how ridiculous an AR-15A4 might look with a 4" barrel.
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??? ??? ???
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My COVID riddled brain is asking why a person would purchase a firearm with three main components Barrel, a(ction, buffer tube) and the barrel is the shortest of the three.
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Recover Tactical 2020 brace is available to fit a G20 size pistol
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??? ??? ???
Yeah, I just don't get it either. Peg. You'd have to grip it by the mag well because there's no way your hand would fit on the fore end. Unless you were delivered prematurely and still wet behind the ears, that is. Maybe that's who's it's marketed toward, people who are still wet behind the ears.
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My COVID riddled brain is asking why a person would purchase a firearm with three main components Barrel, a(ction, buffer tube) and the barrel is the shortest of the three.
Why indeed, Mike? That's million dollar question. You could get a 3" barrel with a 14" flash hider/compensator/muzzle brake pinned and welded to get to legal rifle length at about 16.5", but why on God's green Earth would anyone want to? Rock Island Armory makes Warthog sized .45 with a 3.10" barrel called the BBR Series 3.10. They say it's 4.55" tall and 3.10" long. Somebody screwed up. Gallery of Guns says 6.85" long, and my P10.45 is about 4.5" x 6.5" so that sounds right. But someone, I don't know who, would rather have a rifle length action and a stock with their 3" barrel .45.
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Because you can convince people to buy absolutely ANYTHING .
I can recall a few of YOU getting all googly over something stupid, or pointless, but "NEW". ;D
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Like what? Say it....
:D
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Like what? Say it....
:D
Remington R-51, Chiappa Rhino, Scar/ Masada, Kimber revolver, Pincus.
There were others that I can't think of right now. ;D
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The Kimber revolver looked good in all the pictures, and sounded good from the little bit I read. IIRC it's the same size a a J-frame with an extra round, but I could be wrong about that. I'd be more likely to buy a 4.2" stainless GP100, or that's what I thought when I could still afford to buy ammo. I probably wouldn't use a revolver for concealed carry and the GP100 could handle all the rounds I'd put through it for the rest of my life, no problem. I'm more the "Hey, did you see this?" guy, and not the, "I've got to have this." guy. I did carry my Dan Wesson concealed while hunting when I was granted a permit to carry concealed while hunting only. Now "anyone" can get a permit but, Michigan is the 4th most expensive state to get and maintain a permit in. And if you carry without a permit it's a 5-year felony offense. You can get less time for murdering someone than you can for carrying without a permit. Either way it costs too much.
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Remington R-51, Chiappa Rhino, Scar/ Masada, Kimber revolver, Pincus.
There were others that I can't think of right now. ;D
None of the above and, what’s a pincus? 😂
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None of the above and, what’s a pincus? 😂
I don't remember anyone talking about buying one of those. :)
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None of the above and, what’s a pincus? 😂
Has anyone followed this gun development? He keeps talking about how it is going and that it is "almost ready," but very little that I can figure out. When I attempt to follow, it seems like it is just a production gun with a few customizations.
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Has anyone followed this gun development? He keeps talking about how it is going and that it is "almost ready," but very little that I can figure out. When I attempt to follow, it seems like it is just a production gun with a few customizations.
After my online kerfuffle with the Pincus, I don’t know anything since he left the Best Defense. I recall he was trying to make a gun like the 5.7 but someone beat him to it...
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Like what? Say it....
:D
Or "Old but cool" as in Bren 10. ;D
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After my online kerfuffle with the Pincus, I don’t know anything since he left the Best Defense. I recall he was trying to make a gun like the 5.7 but someone beat him to it...
He find some new coat tails to ride ?
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Blowback pistol ARs are not the most pleasant gun to shoot, as you have a heavy bolt and buffer bouncing back and forth. Recoil is more than some folks may expect. That said, a blowback AR is a fun project, though I would want a longer barrel — maybe 8-10 inches — to get more velocity than my P97DC generates.
The main pros of a PCC AR, as I see them, are:
1. Can practice with an AR at ranges that don’t allow rifle calibers.
2. During normal times, ammo may be cheaper than 5.56mm.
3. Pistol calibers are easier to reload, and blowback ARs can use (cheap) cast lead boolits.
4. Less blast is generally helpful when introducing beginners.
5. PCCs suppress much better than rifle caliber pistols.
6. May be faster and more accurate than a holster pistol, depending on the shooter and how the AR is set up.
Some cons:
1. In absolute terms, is less effective than a rifle caliber.
2. Some blowback ARs aren’t all that pleasant to shoot (a 3-inch .45 ACP is probably in this group).
3. If your budget is limited, there are likely better choices in an AR.
I don’t hate pisrol-caliber ARs, within their limits, but a 3-inch .45 isn’t for me.
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Blowback pistol ARs are not the most pleasant gun to shoot, as you have a heavy bolt and buffer bouncing back and forth. Recoil is more than some folks may expect.
It's a result of being a "pistol".
The advantage of the $200 SBR tax is that you can use a longer buffer tube and spring and reduce the impact of the bolt.
That, in full auto, is how constant recoil works.
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I shot a 16" AR9 for USPSA PCC division for a couple of years as a straight blow back, and for the last year and a half prior to the Wuhan Virus a radially delayed bolt system... even with the radially delayed bolt, a fairly good muzzle brake, a hydraulic buffer, shooting 142 power factor hand loads, it still "recoils" more than a 5.56 in the same gun configuration... just not the muzzle blast
I have an around 7" AR9 pistol, that was a proof of concept project that led to the Recover Tactical 2020 brace with the G17.3.... the G17 provided the same results with a much smaller foot print...Les
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I don't remember anyone talking about buying one of those. :)
I think USCCA "won" the last toss. ;D