The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: Big Frank on January 15, 2021, 04:16:50 AM
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The new Kel-Tec P50 is a 5.7×28mm blowback-operated semi-automatic pistol. It feeds from FN P90 magazines which are inserted upside down. It looks like the upper is the "pistol" and the lower is just the grip and fire control group. Kel-Tec says they have no intention of creating any braces or other accessories for the P50. It has two QD sling mounts on it, one on the butt and one above the beavertail. With a sling attached it can consistently hit accurate shots from ranges up to 100 yards. The 9.6″ barrel is threaded 1/2"-28, and the weight unloaded is 3.2 pounds. I don't see any sights but it has Picatinny rails top and bottom. It's 2" wide with an overall length of 15". Maybe not your new EDC but interesting nonetheless. The MSRP is $995 and they're supposed to be shipping sometime during the first quarter.
https://www.keltecweapons.com/firearms/pistols/p50/
ETA: It looks like the little beavertail on the grip is the barrel latch. I think you would pull it down with your thumb.
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First look: short article. https://www.ballisticmag.com/2021/01/05/keltec-p50-pistol-first-look/?vgo_ee=uyhOr9tNhhGjPVYCCzwKrulMALkJ78iv5NApkuHH%2FIc%3D
I flipped this picture over so you can get a better idea of what it looks like loading the P50.
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5.7 lost all purpose when NATO quit worrying about Soviet parachutists.
The only thing it does better than 22 LR is armor penetration, otherwise it's useless.
A design to compensate for poor training .
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I think it still is very useful as a varmint round. It can produce 3 times the energy of most .22WMR. It was designed as a pistol round from the get go. This gun has to it's advantage the 50 round mag in a compact package.
Remember the old saying about Henry rifles back in the day? Load on Sunday. Shoot all week.
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It is an easy to control round which has benefits and it's 50% faster than a 22LR out of the muzzle. The bullets are overall better quality than 22LR and the plastic tip 40 grain version expands reliably. For women who lack the upper body strength it's an easy round to rack in a semi-auto as opposed to a 9MM or .380. Also the feed reliability is better than anything 22LR for a couple of reasons, one it isn't dirty burning powder gumming up the action and two it's rimless so it feeds much better than the rimmed 22LR. It also doesn't light up the sky and blind you like most of the 22 mag rounds loaded with rifle powder.
But it is more like a 22LR and less like a 9MM with the small plastic tip bullets so over-penetration is not as big a concern as other centerfire rounds.
It's my wife's go to gun at the house. If there was a smaller framed version I'm sure she'd be carrying it.
As far as effectiveness, Nidal Hasan had a 30% mortality rate on his victims.
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I think it still is very useful as a varmint round. It can produce 3 times the energy of most .22WMR. It was designed as a pistol round from the get go. This gun has to it's advantage the 50 round mag in a compact package.
Remember the old saying about Henry rifles back in the day? Load on Sunday. Shoot all week.
Actually it was never intended for pistol. It was designed for the FN p 90 to REPLACE the pistol because the troops can't hit shit with a hand gun.
Like with the BAR/ M-14 they keep trying the same failed ideas over and over.
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Rastus has experience with this round, and others may as well. My question on many of these pistols is the powder burn. Will there be a complete, or near complete, powder burn before the bullet leaves the muzzle?
I have gathered at the range with friends and similar handguns. Guns with the same caliber, but varying barrel lengths. If you shoot at dusk you will see the difference in muzzle flash. A couple of us have also chronographed a couple variations. There is a difference in muzzle velocities.
Some loss isn't always a bad thing, as long as the terminal result is optimal. However, I believe some of these guns are designed for marketing reasons over efficiency.
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Actually it was never intended for pistol. It was designed for the FN p 90 to REPLACE the pistol because the troops can't hit shit with a hand gun.
Like with the BAR/ M-14 they keep trying the same failed ideas over and over.
Still developed for a short-ish barrel with fast burning powder as compared to .22wmr.
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That thing is ugly
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That thing is ugly
Kel-Tec is not known for beauty or fit and finish. To me they always look and handle like a piece of furniture that was assembled after the first rough cut with no sanding.
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Actually it was never intended for pistol. It was designed for the FN p 90 to REPLACE the pistol because the troops can't hit shit with a hand gun.
Like with the BAR/ M-14 they keep trying the same failed ideas over and over.
Actually, 5.7×28mm ammo was ALWAYS intended for use in a pistol. FN 5.7×28mm ammunition was designed in conjunction with the FN P90 PDW and the FN Five-seveN pistol. "The FN 5.7×28mm (designated as the 5.7 × 28 by the C.I.P. is a small-caliber, high-velocity, smokeless powder, rebated rim, bottlenecked centerfire cartridge designed for handgun and personal defense weapon (PDW) uses and manufactured by FN Herstal."* BTW, the barrel of the P90 is only 0.8" longer than this pistol. With muzzle energy in excess of 9x19mm it does lots of things better than .22 LR and is far from useless.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_5.7%C3%9728mm
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Was looking for the NATO PDW RFP from the 80's but frankly lost interest after 10 minutes.
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cool
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I would love to get one of the KelTec's but
1. For my use it really has no practical use.
2. It too large for everyday carry.
3. I don't have an extra $1K laying around.
I have a P-91 (Or 90, whichever is the semi-auto) and it is a LOT of fun to shoot even though the ammo is sky-high. Even more so during these trying times.
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I would love to get one of the KelTec's but
1. For my use it really has no practical use.
2. It too large for everyday carry.
3. I don't have an extra $1K laying around.
I have a P-91 (Or 90, whichever is the semi-auto) and it is a LOT of fun to shoot even though the ammo is sky-high. Even more so during these trying times.
Don't feel bad.
Unless you were an half trained NATO conscript in the 70's - 80's, no one had a real use for it.
It was designed as a PDW for rear echelon, non shooting, types who might have run into Soviet Spetznaz if WW III broke out.
Apparently it was cheaper than actually training their troops.
7.62 x 25 works just as well.
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7.62 x 25 works just as well.
But not as fun. You have to add "cool" factor into the mix!
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But not as fun. You have to add "cool" factor into the mix!
Yeah really. The P90 was a Stargate prop....
http://www.stargate-sg1-solutions.com/wiki/P-90 (http://www.stargate-sg1-solutions.com/wiki/P-90)
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OK. You guys are better at this than I am.
I have heard (probably a rumor) of reloaders pulling the bullets out of the SS109 5.56 rounds and putting them in the 5.7x28 to increase penetration trying to get them close to the "outlawed" armor-piercing cartridge.
1. Do any of you know someone that has done this?
2. Does it come anywhere close to the desired result?
I am sure they are trying to achieve a round that would penetrate a "bullet-resistant" vest.
;D ;D :o :o :o :o
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Looking at published load data, it looks like the heaviest bullet I could find listed was a .224 diameter 45 grain spitzer, So I would say that anything heavier and longer probably wouldn't work except as a single shot.
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OK. You guys are better at this than I am.
I have heard (probably a rumor) of reloaders pulling the bullets out of the SS109 5.56 rounds and putting them in the 5.7x28 to increase penetration trying to get them close to the "outlawed" armor-piercing cartridge.
1. Do any of you know someone that has done this?
2. Does it come anywhere close to the desired result?
I am sure they are trying to achieve a round that would penetrate a "bullet-resistant" vest.
;D ;D :o :o :o :o
Do some LOA measurements.
Spitzer bullets in pistols are just stupid.
Doess any one other than me realize these ideas were thrown out as useless foolishness 120 years ago ?
By the late 1800's calibers below 7 MM had been rejected as useless by everyone but the Japanese, and THEY were disappointed in it's effect on Russians.
And THAT was with full rifle cartridges.
Stick, "NEW" or "Improved" on it and some dumb ass is sure to buy it.
If HK marketed a STANAG buttplug some of you would get one and hype it's advantages.
5.7 that you are wetting yourself over is nothing but FN trying to recover wasted research money.
A
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I disagree. It's an effective round for pistols. It's light to carry, 20 rounds in a mag weigh very little, and there's no recoil to speak of (read that as easier to stay on target). My wife really likes hers because it's easy to rack a round in the chamber as opposed to the 9mm's and anything more potent than that. The PS90 has the same good attributes except 50 rounds not 20. Another strong point is that while being effective on target it does not overpenetrate through walls, etc., which is important when you have children or guests at home.
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I disagree. It's an effective round for pistols. It's light to carry, 20 rounds in a mag weigh very little, and there's no recoil to speak of (read that as easier to stay on target). My wife really likes hers because it's easy to rack a round in the chamber as opposed to the 9mm's and anything more potent than that. The PS90 has the same good attributes except 50 rounds not 20. Another strong point is that while being effective on target it does not overpenetrate through walls, etc., which is important when you have children or guests at home.
So what ?
You can say the same about 22LR.
Point is, it does nothing that can't be done with existing rounds .
It's just "New".
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It's over 30 years old post-development. You must be ancient for that to be new. ;D
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It's over 30 years old post-development. You must be ancient for that to be new. ;D
And it's still nothing but a curiosity which makes my point.
I could sell a turd if I marketed it right.
Look at the Kriss Vector how many of you get all exited about that useless POS.
This culture wide stupidity is why gun mags all suck.
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I think the 5.7x28mm is more than a curiosity. Adapted by quite a few services and from a PDW perspective out performs other pistol calibers by a wide margin. Defeating Level III armor at 220yds isn't really doable by other pistol rounds. And I think the sub-sonic loading provides some very interesting ballistics beyond it's use with silencers.
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Tom we will continue to disagree because it is an effective round for what it is. It is light and small so you can carry a lot of rounds in a pistol. With the PS90 it has 50 rounds stock. The round doesn't overpenetrate and it does the job.
It's double the velocity of a 22 LR from a pistol so yes, I have carried the 5.7. I have never carried a 22LR or 22 mag for defense.
And no, you can't say the same thing about the 22LR and be honest about it because it's apples to oranges. The 22 LR is a slug puppy in a pistol....I don't want to be shot by one but there's a big loss in what little velocity it does start with. In fact, the 22 Magnum can only scoot maybe 1,300 FPS from a pistol barrel....which is still a lot less than a 5.7. Most, but now not all because of the PMR 30, of the 22 mag rounds are rifle powder slower burning rounds so there's quite a flash of unburned powder when you do shot one. Not so much with the 5.7.
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.... The 22 LR is a slug puppy in a pistol....
Slug Puppy. Much more descriptive than my "thud".
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Well, it's the best I could come up with at the time.
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I have it and it is very good
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cool
I agree. But, not a whole lot else going for it. One of my brothers who already had an FN Five-seveN wasn't interested in this at all but snatched up a Ruger 57 when he saw those.
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Yeah really. The P90 was a Stargate prop....
http://www.stargate-sg1-solutions.com/wiki/P-90 (http://www.stargate-sg1-solutions.com/wiki/P-90)
Even when they KNEW they were headed straight into the $#!* they would STILL take their under-powered P90s instead of grabbing a rifle of some kind. They should each have had an M4 carbine at a bare minimum, preferably with an M203 grenade launcher mounted on one.
Someone patented a new PDW design in 5.7mm that feeds the rounds through the pistol grip, but instead of being stacked up horizontally, the rounds are angled upward at the front so the grip is smaller front to back than a 5.7 caliber pistol. If I can find it again I'll post some pics and a link to the article I saw. I was going to do that a week or so ago, but finally decided to close all the windows I had open on my computer and go to bed.
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OK. You guys are better at this than I am.
I have heard (probably a rumor) of reloaders pulling the bullets out of the SS109 5.56 rounds and putting them in the 5.7x28 to increase penetration trying to get them close to the "outlawed" armor-piercing cartridge.
1. Do any of you know someone that has done this?
2. Does it come anywhere close to the desired result?
I am sure they are trying to achieve a round that would penetrate a "bullet-resistant" vest.
;D ;D :o :o :o :o
I haven't heard about that but I really don't get out much. Out of bed that is. I like the idea in theory but not in practice. Turning down pieces of solid bronze on a lathe to make bullets the right length would work, assuming someone had access to a lathe and bronze rods. And if you have money you can get those things. How you explain to your family why the AFT (Absolute F***ing Terrorists) shot your dog when they broke into your house is up to you.
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I haven't heard about that but I really don't get out much. Out of bed that is. I like the idea in theory but not in practice. Turning down pieces of solid bronze on a lathe to make bullets the right length would work, assuming someone had access to a lathe and bronze rods. And if you have money you can get those things. How you explain to your family why the AFT (Absolute F***ing Terrorists) shot your dog when they broke into your house is up to you.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
;D Yeah, that. ;D
As a strict thought project I would be more likely to try making a 5.7 round from rod rather than use a bullet intended for a different caliber.
They did both in the Philippines during WW II.
One of the biggest problems with the post was/surplus Carcano's is that 6.5 Carcano is a different dimension from standard.
IIRC They were exactly 6.5 mm and the others were 0.26?rounded into metric.
Or you could use a subcaliber in a nylon sleeve.