The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: ericire12 on November 17, 2008, 08:44:54 PM
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Well, well, well.....what do we have here.... I saw this on one of those "other forums" and it is being touted as Glock's newest gun...... any idea if it has any merit or is it just internet rumor?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/legacy38/firearms/glocknewgrip-1.jpg)
(http://glocktalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=160672&stc=1&d=1226604785)
(http://glocktalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=160673&stc=1&d=1226604830)
SayUncle says it will debut at the next SHOT Show:
http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/11/17/fourth-generation-glock-follow-up/
Good grief:
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=2105.0
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Couldn't be... they are perfect... just ask glock or its fanboys.
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did they get rid of those useless finger grip grooves? I don't know whose hand they used for a model, but it isn't even close for my hand.
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That has more dimples than a golf ball. Probably made from the same plastic too. ;D You may need to add a box of toothpicks to your gun cleaning kit to keep all those cavities clean. But I'll have to check them out. I need more guns.
It was "Glock Perfection" then they changed it again and again and again. Now it's something different but they still say it's perfect. ??? How can that be?
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I wonder if they fixed the fring of the gun to field strip.
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I wonder if they fixed the fring of the gun to field strip.
I was really shocked the first time I heard about that. It seems to go against the safety rules I learned about guns.
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I was really shocked the first time I heard about that. It seems to go against the safety rules I learned about guns.
its reason enough for me not to buy another one...
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Since when is a minor change in the external finish a "revision"? Yes, they revised their molds, but it's not like they've added a de-cocker or something truly new.
Will 5th gen be a tan or green frame?
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Just plain ugly! Keep it.....
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I wonder if they fixed the fring of the gun to field strip.
If people would actually READ the owners manual for the Glocks it says to only move the slide back slightly less than 1/4 in and pull the pins down to strip it. The problem is most people pull it back to far and it cocks it. I have straipped mine 100s of times and only have to pull the trigger when I'm in a hurry.
Besides isn't the first rule of cleaning a gun making absolutely sure there is no ammunition in it/around it? If you follow the rules you shouldn't have to worry about pulling the trigger to get the slide off.
BTW I don't think the dimpled grip would be all that good. I think it would make it slick and hard to hold onto.
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I was really shocked the first time I heard about that. It seems to go against the safety rules I learned about guns.
I think the rule of unload the gun before you begin cleaning trumps your concern.
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I never could understand HOW someone could shoot themselves while cleaning an empty firearm!
Maybe I'm missing something or stupid is as stupid does...!
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Cleaning is not the only reason to feild strip. Some type of miss fire or extraction prob is also reason too. I would have to get a live, un fired round stuck in the chamber.
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Cleaning is not the only reason to feild strip. Some type of miss fire or extraction prob is also reason too. I would have to get a live, un fired round stuck in the chamber.
Exactly. Which makes it impossible to "make absolutely sure there is no ammunition in it/around it" and "unload the gun before you begin cleaning" as others say to do.
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It was "Glock Perfection" then they changed it again and again and again. Now it's something different but they still say it's perfect. ??? How can that be?
More perfect-er-er. Gotta be a German word for that.
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I was really shocked the first time I heard about that. It seems to go against the safety rules I learned about guns.
Dry-fire practice also goes against the rules of safe gun handling, but it's extremely extremely practical training. Even cheaper than .22lr.
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Dry-fire practice also goes against the rules of safe gun handling, but it's extremely extremely practical training. Even cheaper than .22lr.
How so? Dry fire practice follows the same rules as firing live. I dry fire in the same place every time. Gun gets unloaded out of the area, no ammo gets brought into the area, muzzle is pointed in a safe direction. If I get interrupted for any reason, everything starts from square one. Firearm get checked again etc.
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Couldn't be... they are perfect... just ask glock or its fanboys.
Maybe one day TAB will grow up! On second tought, disregard my last statement. I'm gonna go caress my Glocks and ponder on how some people in life "just don't get it." ::)
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Umm wouldn't that be like a 5th Generation Glock... If you count the SF or sub-compact no-rail style ? .. some variations etc.. i guess they are all really Glock which makes it okay anyway.. also seen that picture on the net in other places. Some say it is a fake. I dunno.. I like Glock the way they are now..myself..
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I heard from a Glock rep that "The American Consumer" asked for finger grooves! My buddy and I told him we prefered no finger grooves and didn't know anyone who liked them and he just shrugged.
So much for customer input.
FWIW
Richard
PS: Can't get a real good look at the picture, but it seems the grooves are still there.
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I like the finger grooves.... they fit my hand nicely.... I have a Gen 1 Glock 17 (no finger groves) and put a Hogue slip on grip on it and it is awesome!
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I would rather my GLOCK in the evidence locker than my KIMBER. 8) 8) 8) ::)
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Finger grooves are great if you have a set of custom grips that are made to fit your hand. BUT the one size fits all concept of finger grooves on a gripframe just doesn't do it for me.
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Finger grooves are great if you have a set of custom grips that are made to fit your hand. BUT the one size fits all concept of finger grooves on a gripframe just doesn't do it for me.
+1. I have large hands and most of those finger grips are made for 12 year olds!
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I see your point about finger grooves and grips. However, they fit me perfit.. so I can't complain. Maybe, Glock will make new grips or options etc.. because the guns are wonderful. Obviously, that is my very biased opinion. ::) But, you know the old saying, "if the shoe fits..wear it." Well in my case.."If the gun fits.. carry it." And I do.. I love Glock... :)
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Yeah, It's true and they are already being sold. I understand that some people won't ever like Glocks. I don't mind that much, but i admit it concerns me that the ones who post on Glock discussion always have the biggest issues and the least understanding about what they're complaining of. Yes, the 4th gen has finger grooves and they work...like the previous incarnations...I have big hands and long fingers and I find the grip on my Glocks to be suitable. The new grip grooves don't seem to be as pronounced as the previous models. I was astounded that people were complaining about field stripping a Glock. From the first Glock to the latest they all field strip the same way and it works like a charm if you act like you know what you're doing. The guy who griped about "Glock Perfection" being changed again and again could learn from history that Perfection must be judged against the cloth of its' own time and place. Technology changes perfection almost daily and that is a very good thing. As for the photo being "faked"? That guy doesn't get out much or read much, I suppose.
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I was really shocked the first time I heard about that. It seems to go against the safety rules I learned about guns.
Yeah. I remember my first gun. ::)
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Yeah. I remember my first gun. ::)
WELL...
tell us about it. ::)
Maybe Mister One-Post will jump in again too and explain the difference between perfect, more perfect, most perfect, and even more perfect. ;)
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I wouldn't want to do that. I can see you already know everything about everything. Signed, Mister Two Posts
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I wouldn't want to do that. I can see you already know everything about everything. Signed, Mister Two Posts
Wouldn't want to. Or CAN'T?
If I already knew everything I wouldn't ask. I'm considering buying a Glock but I can't afford to buy a new one every time they change something. If it's truly perfect I'll get one if I get an income tax refund big enough to cover it. If they aren't perfect and there's room for improvement I'll wait.
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I wouldn't want to do that. I can see you already know everything about everything. Signed, Mister Two Posts
We try to be cordial around here. So, BE NICE! >:(
P.S.
Jumbo -- Do yourself a favor and buy yourself a Glock..... ANY Glock. You wont be disappointed. The only real differences in the evolution of frame design is purely cosmetic. If you look hard enough you can find used Glocks that are as just as fine of performing guns as the new ones for under $350:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/654_774/products_id/411535895
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/654_774/products_id/411535917
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My only gripe, as I've said before, is the longer than single action trigger pull, and that is just a matter of personal preference, and a LOT more time on 1911's and revolvers than DA pistols.
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Maybe I'm mistaken but, with a stiker fired pistol, are they really double action or since the striker is cocked against spring tension when the round is chambered, doesn't that make the trigger assembly a single action mechanism? I quess my problems are that I just don't trust striker fired pistols for any reason regardless of the manufacturer.
Being an engineer and understanding the physical forces involved, it really bothers me that the striker can advance forward given the right conditions or wear on the other components of the trigger mechanism. Maybe I need to a lilttle more homework to better understand the working parts of these pistols. Like Tom, my primary experience is with my 1911, several revolvers and my old Beretta.
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Timothy,
I view them as a true double action. The difference is that you are not pushing a hammer back against a spring and then releasing it against a firing pin with a spring on it. Instead you are pusing a spring loaded striker back and releasing it against weaker spring pressure.
My simple mind pictures it as both systems use a spring to both hold the firing pin away from the primer and to push the firing pin into the primer. One is done by a spring loaded hammer swinging into the firing pin, and the other is a firing pin with opposing springs that is released to hit the primer.
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Timothy,
I view them as a true double action. The difference is that you are not pushing a hammer back against a spring and then releasing it against a firing pin with a spring on it. Instead you are pusing a spring loaded striker back and releasing it against weaker spring pressure.
My simple mind pictures it as both systems use a spring to both hold the firing pin away from the primer and to push the firing pin into the primer. One is done by a spring loaded hammer swinging into the firing pin, and the other is a firing pin with opposing springs that is released to hit the primer.
Ok, having thought some on this, I have another question.
On a conventional hammer fired pistol, the firing pin itself is held, while in battery by the compents of the sear and spring assembly but the hammer MUST be dropped against the pin, forcing the pin AGAINST spring pressure to strike the chambered round. The distal end of the pin cannot strike the primer unless force is applied from the hammer thereby compressing a spring.
Am I correct in assuming that in a striker fired pistol, the firing pin is held in battery AGAINST spring pressure and spring pressure is RELEASED and sends the pin to strike the chambered round when the trigger releases the sear? This design lends itself to accidental discharge based on the physical forces required to hold the striker in place. Yes, there are safeties designed into the system but, anything made by man is IMPERFECT and subject to physical forces beyond his control...
I still want to be the one and only reason that my pistol goes BOOM. Physical force, applied when required.....not by failure of design or function....
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Striker fire is a different classification then DAO.
With DAO the firing pin is forward and as the trigger is pulled it moves backwards to a certain point and then is released (Exactly like a DAO revolver). With a striker fire handgun the firing pin is already in the rearward position. A Glock is a striker fired pistol.
This design lends itself to accidental discharge based on the physical forces required to hold the striker in place
Glock and many other striker fire pistols have a firing pin safety in place until the trigger is pulled a certain distance and disengages the safety. It essentially blocks the firing pin from striking the primer if the sear were to fail.
http://www.glock.com/english/index_pistols.htm
FIRING PIN SAFETY
The GLOCK firing pin safety is a solid hardened steel pin which, in the secured state, blocks the firing pin channel, rendering the igniting of a chambered cartridge by the firing pin impossible. The firing pin safety is only pushed upward to release the firing pin for firing when the trigger is pulled and the safety is pushed up through the backward movement of the trigger bar. Releasing the trigger will automatically reactivate the firing pin safety.
(http://www.glock.com/images/tips_firingpin.gif)
The bottom line here is that the only way in hell that a Glock is going to go bang is if the trigger is fully depressed.
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Thanks Eric...
Is there a recommended interval of replacement of these parts by Glock? How often is cleaning of this part of the slide recommended and can the parts be re-installed improperly and adversly affect the safe action of the system?
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No clue
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I'll have to do a little more homework I guess.
Since I can't buy them new, only LEA remanufactured are allowed up here because MA considers them DA pistols and the law says they must have a 10lb trigger pull. I know, M&P probably are lighter but S&W gets a pass... Anyway, they have to be pre-1994 pistols that Glock reconditions. The SR9 just got approved but still the "Turd" issue persists....
The only ones I would considered would be the compact models and doubtfull an LEA are going to be turning those in since they probably never used them. I've yet to see anthing smaller than a G19...
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Point taken. I Will be nice. I will Be NICE!!! I am a Glock Armorer. I have owned Glocks since the early 1980s and I believe in them. I retired from cop work in 1995 after 25 years and now work as a civilian for the State Dept. of Safety and still carry Glocks. Glocks break. I have never gotten a service interval or schedule of replacement from tham and I know what tends toward breakage and keep those parts at hand. NOTHING is perfect. At least nothing mechanical...but Glocks are pretty far down that road. I admit to only 3, now, posts on this forum but have tens of thousands on forums and have really looked forward to this board.
If you are gonna jump my bones about Glocks on here tell me that you have been carrying them or fiddling with them for a while and I'll happily listen. Please don't tell me you'd like to own them if only you could afford them and then tell me what a POS they are.
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OUCH! TOUCHE!!!!! GOT YA!
Does firing a few rounds thru one count?
Richard
Sorry warped SOH
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Hey fish your bell is ringing.
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Point taken. I Will be nice. I will Be NICE!!! I am a Glock Armorer. I have owned Glocks since the early 1980s and I believe in them. I retired from cop work in 1995 after 25 years and now work as a civilian for the State Dept. of Safety and still carry Glocks. Glocks break. I have never gotten a service interval or schedule of replacement from tham and I know what tends toward breakage and keep those parts at hand. NOTHING is perfect. At least nothing mechanical...but Glocks are pretty far down that road. I admit to only 3, now, posts on this forum but have tens of thousands on forums and have really looked forward to this board.
If you are gonna jump my bones about Glocks on here tell me that you have been carrying them or fiddling with them for a while and I'll happily listen. Please don't tell me you'd like to own them if only you could afford them and then tell me what a POS they are.
Who are you talking to? Since I am seriously interested in buying a Glock when another pistol is in my budget, I mentioned it so I have to believe your comments are directed at me. And I never said Glock was a POS. If you're saying that I did, you're a liar. That's NOT playing nice, but no one said you were here to make friends. I didn't see any posts where someone "jumped your bones about Glocks" either. None that I know of anyway. It depends on your definition and I'm not sure what you mean. I didn't see anything that would fit the definition I recognize of jumping someone's bones. It's not THAT kind or forum. If you've been a Glock armorer for years you should be able to answer questions and help those of us who aren't as knowledgeable, instead of putting words in other peoples mouths and starting arguments. Since I'm on a limited income and I can't blow my whole pension check I want to be very careful with my purchase decisions. I like to research the guns I'm considering and this forum WAS a great place for me to do that. Is there anything besides Glock I shouldn't ask you about?
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I heard from a Glock rep that "The American Consumer" asked for finger grooves! My buddy and I told him we prefered no finger grooves and didn't know anyone who liked them and he just shrugged.
So much for customer input.
FWIW
Richard
PS: Can't get a real good look at the picture, but it seems the grooves are still there.
Heh. Para guys said 'customer input' was why they started grooving the LDAs triggers.
I think those customers were really Dremel employees.
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A popular gun writer once said a "carry gun should be comforting not nesecerily comfortable". Or words to that effect. I have owned through the years many 1911's (love em) Sigs (ditto), and assorted wheelguns. A Smith & Wesson 629 Mountain Revolver and my bobbed hammer Smith & Wedgie 637 all I have or do carry. My main carry gun is a Glock 23 that I purchased new in 1990 (I think). It has been the most reliable pistol I have owned (next to an old Remington Rand 1911A1). I only replaced the little coil spring in the rear of the frame (can you tell I'm not a rocket scientist) and am on my second set of trijicons There are no fancy finger grooves or a rail to hang my laundry from. The finish is slightly worn, more from carry then the 5,000 rnds I have in it. I don't exactly like the feel of plastic or the grip angle or the blocky slide but she has only had 4 failures in that 5,000 rnds. 2 from the spring breaking and 2 from my brother due to limp wristing (yes he is gay) I've given thought to trading up, but used combat tupperware is not worth a whole lot. I guess I don't need to pay a bunch on top of the trade for the finger grooves or laundry rail. This old girl will just carry on nicely. Besides, I might not be so fortunate with the next one.
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A popular gun writer once said a "carry gun should be comforting not nesecerily comfortable". Or words to that effect. I have owned through the years many 1911's (love em) Sigs (ditto), and assorted wheelguns. A Smith & Wesson 629 Mountain Revolver and my bobbed hammer Smith & Wedgie 637 all I have or do carry. My main carry gun is a Glock 23 that I purchased new in 1990 (I think). It has been the most reliable pistol I have owned (next to an old Remington Rand 1911A1). I only replaced the little coil spring in the rear of the frame (can you tell I'm not a rocket scientist) and am on my second set of trijicons There are no fancy finger grooves or a rail to hang my laundry from. The finish is slightly worn, more from carry then the 5,000 rnds I have in it. I don't exactly like the feel of plastic or the grip angle or the blocky slide but she has only had 4 failures in that 5,000 rnds. 2 from the spring breaking and 2 from my brother due to limp wristing (yes he is gay) I've given thought to trading up, but used combat tupperware is not worth a whole lot. I guess I don't need to pay a bunch on top of the trade for the finger grooves or laundry rail. This old girl will just carry on nicely. Besides, I might not be so fortunate with the next one.
Is he gay because he limp wrists or does he limp wrist because he is gay?! ;D
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Is he gay because he limp wrsits or does he limp wrist because he is gay?! ;D
Ohhhhhhhh Man ... The possibilities here, but I will do my best to behave :-X
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C'mon. I threw you guys a bone here. Don't hold back. This forum is the best reading ever. I love it. I guess I shouldn't use bone in the context of this subject.
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dalea ... are you by chance my wife? Bait me and bait me and bait me, and then kick my ass when I bite ???
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No baiting here. And no sex either. I drive this truck to get away from sex. Its terrible being married to a nymho. I call her up on occasion to see if she reached menopause yet. She answers "you couldn't be so lucky, now git your ass home". It sucks it really does ;)
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did they get rid of those useless finger grip grooves? I don't know whose hand they used for a model, but it isn't even close for my hand.
I think my hand fits me perfect
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I think my hand fits me perfect
My hands are a little too big for me. ;D
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My hands are a little too big for me. ;D
Or maybe your ______ is too small! ;D
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Or maybe your ______ is too small! ;D
ooooooooooooooo0000000000OOOOOOOOOo ;D
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A bit of a thread drift here...even though it is a Glock thread...
There is an interesting discussion going on on the Brian Enos site between a few members (myself included) and one of the owners of CCF Raceframes - he's not too happy with some of our posts.
Makes for a few minutes of interesting reading and wondering what is going to come next!
Richard
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link?
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http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69241
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Thanks cookie62 don't know how to do that! Probably too old to learn!!!!!
Richard
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Update: Its official
Just wanted to pass along that the newest Glock Auto Pistols Magazine (AKA Glock's official propaganda publication) has this new model on the cover and also has a one page write up on it. They mention it only in the Glock 22 .40 cal model.
It basically looks just like the picture posted at the beginning of this thread. It does have two finger groves, but they seem to be much less pronounced then the ones on earlier frames.
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Photos from SHOT Show 2009:
(http://lundestudio.com/2009SHOTShow/Day1Lo/2009shotshow-01152009-040.jpg)
(http://lundestudio.com/2009SHOTShow/Day1Lo/2009shotshow-01152009-041.jpg)
(http://lundestudio.com/2009SHOTShow/Day1Lo/2009shotshow-01152009-042.jpg)
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It's ugly!! I'll stick to my 3rd Gens.
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The grip is okay but WTH happened to the slide?
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Glocks have always been ugly to me. But if I wanted a pretty gun, I would go by a stainless Para TAC 4...... ;D
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More pics and insight here:
http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2009/01/17/glock-rtf2-finish-on-the-glock-22-thousands-of-polymer-spikes/
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I still like the 2nd generation Glocks the best.
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Ok, I haven't started anything around here in a while so I figure I'm due.
I HATE GLOCK'S! In fact I am a charter member of Glock Haters of America from the mid 1980's
I don't hate them because they do not work, they do. I do not hate the Glock because it tends to brake, it does not.
A friend of mine got one of the first few hundred Glock that came into this country and he sold all of his other guns. He told me it was the ultimate pistol and that he would never need anything else. I tried his and hated it. It didn't point well for me. The grip felt like a poorly rasped 1x2. The magazine didn't drop-free (yeah I know they changed that). The trigger felt like something from one of my old cap-guns. I thought putting the safety on the trigger was one of the most retarded things I had ever heard of. In fact, I found nothing about the gun that I actually liked. Nothing! I even hated the weight because it was too light and the weight shifted when you fired it and the ammo got low.
Years later I tried the new version with the finger grooves and hated it even more because it now felt like a poorly rasped 1x2 with bumps on it that didn't fit my fingers.
Now, in all honesty I have yet to find a polymer pistol that I truly like. I am leaning towards the FNP 45, but I want some real trigger time before I say it is the first. I like a metal pistol, the 1911 and the Sig P220 are two of my all time favorites. I like having some weight in my pistols to help reduce recoil. I don't like any pistol that malfunctions when my grip ain't perfect. I don't like depending on something that will melt at under a thousand degrees. In fact, one of the things I DON'T like about the Sig is the fact that the plastic grip was the only thing covering the back-strap, Heck I tried to get a pair of aluminum grips made for my P220 back in the late '80's.
Yes, you can throw a Glock out of a helicopter a hundred feet up and it will work once you put it back together. Yes some of them have run 10's and 100's of thousands of rounds. Yes police agencies all over the country and the world issue them. Yes the training and manual of arms are so simple a monkey can use it. I still won't drink the cool-aid.
I may find a plastic pistol I like, it won't be a Glock. I may well get a 9mm pistol (I ain't a fan of them either) but it will likely be a CZ-75 or Sig. I might, someday get a striker-fired pistol, but I will have to find one that doesn't feel like I should fit a roll of red paper caps in it.
For my money, the biggest thing Glock has ever had going for it is PR and Hype, neither of which do I worry about, generally speaking.
If you think otherwise, fine. I don't buy your guns and you don't buy mine, so get what you want, but please don't try to tell me it's a Phaser or something. It is a pistol and IMO there are much better to be had. Besides, if God wanted guns made like a Glock he would have had John Moses Browning invent it, not some Austrian curtain-rod manufacturer.
P.S. their knives and shovels suck too.
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Warhawke - +10
However, I sense some reservation. You need to break loose and really express your true feelings! ;D ;D ;D
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Here is the Sig 226 being thrown out of a helicopter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgjmtj9TgX8
....everything you mentioned is exactly why those who hate Glocks hate them...... BUT its all just aesthetics and personal preference. I cut my teeth with pistols shooting Glocks, so I dont really know any better and I dont have any of the hang ups you mentioned...... They shoot well for me, I am very comfortable with the trigger, and I really like the light weight for concealed carry.
I love Glocks because they are so uber reliable. It helps me sleep at night/walk the streets knowing that my gun will go bang each and every time I pull that trigger.
But I see your points and understand exactly what you are saying. A gun has to fit you the shooter, or it is just a big waste of time.
......Shoot the Glock 26 for a little while, and you will know why they call them perfection.
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"Besides, if God wanted guns made like a Glock he would have had John Moses Browning invent it, not some Austrian curtain-rod manufacturer."
+10000000 ;D