The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: 73Bronco on March 11, 2009, 11:37:44 PM
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I just received my Glock factory recertified 21SF and there is definitely a problem. If the slide is locked back, no problem inserting a magazine. If the slide is forward, there is a problem. If the magazine is empty, I can gently push up and it will click into place. As soon as put one round in the mag, it gets progressively harder to click the magazine into place. I mean so hard that on a full mag I almost have to push it in using a vice like motion with my hands. This in not a I need to get to the gym problem ;)
I have not fired the weapon yet, only broke it down to clean/lube it. It does seem to function (feed/extract) properly.
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Bronco - I'm new to Glock's having just bought my first 17 recently. The 21 sf If I'm correct is in .45 acp with a 13 rd magazine. Handguns sometimes need a break in period to work to their potential but that being said you want to make sure your weapon is in working order before you fire it.
Are you only experiencing problems when the magazine is fully loaded (13 rnds) or have you tried inserting it with four or five? If you find that if snaps easily into place with a magazine that is only partially loaded it may loosen up after an initial break in period.
Then again if there is a problem with the weapon taking it back to the store where you bought it unfired would be the best move.
This place is filled with people who can give you the right answers though....be patient.
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Bronco,
I am using my 21SF to duplicate your actions.
It is more difficult to insert a full magazine than an empty one. This is due to the pressure of the compressed magazine spring pushing the top round against the bottom of the slide. As more rounds are added to the magazine, the pressure of the spring increases as does the force required to seat the magazine.
When I insert an empty or a full magazine with the slide held open, I notice no difference in the force required other than the weight of the full magazine. If you try this find a difference, you may have a problem.
To seat a magazine, I firmly insert it in the mag well and press it into position with the heal of my palm. It is not necessary or recommend to "slam" the magazine home. A moderate "rap" with the heal of your palm will seat it if pressing firmly required more force than is comfortable.
The pressure required for my 21SF is slightly greater but similar to that required for my G23 and G19. It is the same as my G21.
If you find the force excessive you should try different magazines for the 21SF or visit a range where you might be able to find another 21SF for comparison.
The amount of force perceived is subjective so what seems normal for me might seem excessive for you.
I have been using Glocks for years (my 19 was purchased new and is in the first 4000 manufactured) so I may be accustomed to the force required. I also use a 1911 Gov. Model 70 Series and have never noticed a difference in force required to be, well, notable.
Note that on many Glock models, a non-empty magazine is held in place more firmly than an empty one, so the force required to insert a full one will be more than an empty one for that reason also. I have always assumed the extra force was a design feature to prevent accidentally dropping a magazine containing rounds. It requires you to pull the magazine from the mag well.
Both a full and empty magazine will drop freely from my Glock 21SF.
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This is due to the pressure of the compressed magazine spring pushing the top round against the bottom of the slide.
This may be the case as loading the 9th and 10th round (CA) is extremely hard. However, this really is unacceptable. With the amount of pressure is currently takes, I couldn't even load/reload without switching to a vice like grip and forcing the magazine in. If I did the normal push/slap method, I would have to slap so hard the the weapon would at least point up 45 degrees with the force of the slap. Both magazines do the same thing and both are extremely hard to load. Of course I bought it online so I can't go back to the store, but I may go to my local store and see if they have another magazine I could try. I realize the magazines may need some break in but I've never experienced anything like this at all. Thanks for input and I'll keep you informed.
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A quick update. Using my home scale, it takes about 31-32lbs of pressure to seat a fully loaded magazine ??? I know that's not the most scientific way to measure but it should give you an idea of the kind of pressure I'm talking about. This can't be normal.
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Try calling Glock itself, I hear their CS is second to none and is pretty generous. Maybe if you explain your situation they'll set you up good as new.
BTW, how's the desert?
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Let me start of by saying that I really enjoy shooting the Glock 21 SF. I am hoping to get its cousin, the 20 SF in 10 mm soon. Same frame and slide.
I am not a fan, however, of that ambidextrous mg release. It looks really good on paper, but you loose (well I loose) the ability to do a rip/rack to clear a double feed with a closed slide (at least as closed as a slide can get with two rounds trying to get into the chamber at the same time). Whereas with my Glock 26 or Sig P220C, I can clear double feeds by pressing the mag release and just ripping out the mag, the Glock 21 SF requires that the slide be locked back first.
So that little gripe out of the way, I am wondering if perhaps, the mag spring is not somehow sitting in a jacked up way inside your mag body. Perhaps the follower is not entirely seated in the spring, or maybe the spring isn’t fully seated in the base plate. I haven’t had any 21 SF mags apart, so I don’t know the precise inner workings.
By all means call Glock and let us know what they say, but you might disassemble one of the mags and see if all is well in there. This task is virtually impossible unless done just right. Search youtube or something for a video, to get an idea of the steps (all you really need is a punch).
ETA: Using a brand new ambi Glock 21 SF and any of six brand new magazines it never took any undue force to load a mag into place. The more I think about this, it sounds like the previous owner may have added some extra power springs or some other such foolishness. If I were in your shoes I would order a dozen extra mags (or a half dozen just to have) and if they work fine then send the goofy mags back to Glock for replacement or repair if they will do it. I'm guessing they will.
When doing research for my quest for 10mm, I spoke with a CS rep at Glock. I think their warranty is somthing like 80,000 rounds or 1 year whichever takes longest to reach. I asked him to repeat himself, and he did indeed say longest. He might have said 50k rounds, I don't know, but I do remember thinking, "Damn! that's alot!" I've never had to use their warranty, but they do seem easy to work with.
ETA2: After reading the post following mine it got me thinking. I might be wrong, but I believe that the 21 SF with ambi mag release only works properly with the newer mags. I don't know if that means that the ambi release only works with the new mags, or if they don't work right at all.
The ambi release mags will have a slot (the ones I have seen also have some metal showing through) straight across the front of the mag body, whereas the old style only have a notch there on the right hand side of the mag.
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Bronco, perhaps the mag spring justs needs to be broke in. A guy I worked with bought a Taurus Millenium, when he first got it the springs in the mags were so stiff he could not hand load more than 3 or 4 rounds without a "loading tool".As he shot it more and more the springs loosened up and now he can load a full mag by hand, easily, and it still functions perfectly.
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73 look at the rear notch at the top of the magazine, and see if it is square or u shaped. If it is square it is an old non-dropfree magazine, and the magazine swells slightly when loaded and is harder to load into the pistol.
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I would definitely have someone look at it cause I carry a Glock 21SF and have not had a single problem with it loading, unloading, feeding nor firing. ???
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This sounds similar to the problem I had with my Glock 20 and Glock 22 when they were new. The Glock magazines are hard to load to capacity when new and when inserting a loaded magazine it becomes harder because it has to compress the spring further. I never top off my magazines because of this and I insert them with the slide locked back. As your magazine springs get broken in it will get easier to insert at least that has been my experience.
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Just another update. Went to the range and the weapon shoots fine. I'm still not happy with force required to load a full mag into the pistol though. I called Glock and they also said that it sounded normal and just needed to be broken in. They said I could send them in if I wanted to and they would send some back to me that were working better/broken in. I will admit that getting through to their customer service was extremely easy and I appreciate their offer, but I can't get over the fact that I shouldn't even be having this problem in the first place. If what I have is normal, this should be unacceptable from all Glock owners. I'm sorry if I'm ranting but I can't believe that so many Glock owners find this acceptable/normal. Actually, I hope that I do have defective mags and you all think that I'm crazy. I wouldn't want people thinking that this is how a quality weapon is supposed to operate.
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I dunno about factory recertified Glocks, but often times new Glocks and / or new Glock magazines have to be shot some and broke in a little before they are "like normal." I always tell people to shoot about 500rds through their Glock before they are "broke in." Once you get to the 500rd point.. from that point on.. they are like butter! So, smooth. My guess is after about 100-200rds.. the mag will go in easier. .45 ammo ain't cheap.. probably not what you want to hear. But, it has been my experience that this will help considerably. I own several Glocks. This has been the case with them all. And as with most guns..they got to settle in a little with shooting if they are coming from the factory.
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73 look at the rear notch at the top of the magazine, and see if it is square or u shaped. If it is square it is an old non-dropfree magazine, and the magazine swells slightly when loaded and is harder to load into the pistol.
We have a winner!