The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: runstowin on April 20, 2009, 12:41:45 PM
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Warning: from World Nut Daily.
By Drew Zahn
Author Charl Van Wyk, who shot back at terrorists attacking a church meeting, will be touring the U.S. with tales of his African ministry, including his first-hand experience with Christian churches that aren't prepared to defend themselves.
Van Wyk's story of shooting back on July 25, 1993, when terrorists attacked and killed 11 people and injured another five dozen at a South African church, has been chronicled in "Shooting Back: The Right and Duty of Self-Defense."
But police later told him the terrorists confessed their plan was to kill everyone in the church, possibly 1,000 people or more, and his armed response is credited with saving many lives that day....
Through his ministry with Frontline Fellowship, however, Van Wyk has been working in regions that could be called "war-torn" sections of Africa, except that in the Congo, for example, there is no one shooting back, no one armed like he was during the St. James Massacre to prevent further bloodshed. Rather than calling these places "war-torn zones," Van Wyk contends, they should simply be called "murder zones."....
In Christian circles, Van Wyk concludes, there is an additional imperative to be armed for self-defense.
"The Apostle Paul wrote in a letter to Timothy, 'But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially of those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever,'" noted van Wyk. "Provision includes providing security. In fact our Lord Jesus taught, 'If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.'"
Quoting Jesus again, Van Wyk added, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and 'your neighbour as yourself,'" he said. "Are we loving our neighbor when we stand by and do nothing when he is being murdered or a woman is being raped?"
Van Wyk's experience in regions of Africa where criminals are armed but the citizenry is not has seasoned his perspective, but he warns that Americans cannot fail to be diligent in protecting their Second Amendment rights.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=94591
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Warning: from World Nut Daily.
By Drew Zahn
Author Charl Van Wyk, who shot back at terrorists attacking a church meeting, will be touring the U.S. with tales of his African ministry, including his first-hand experience with Christian churches that aren't prepared to defend themselves.
Van Wyk's story of shooting back on July 25, 1993, when terrorists attacked and killed 11 people and injured another five dozen at a South African church, has been chronicled in "Shooting Back: The Right and Duty of Self-Defense."
But police later told him the terrorists confessed their plan was to kill everyone in the church, possibly 1,000 people or more, and his armed response is credited with saving many lives that day....
Through his ministry with Frontline Fellowship, however, Van Wyk has been working in regions that could be called "war-torn" sections of Africa, except that in the Congo, for example, there is no one shooting back, no one armed like he was during the St. James Massacre to prevent further bloodshed. Rather than calling these places "war-torn zones," Van Wyk contends, they should simply be called "murder zones."....
In Christian circles, Van Wyk concludes, there is an additional imperative to be armed for self-defense.
"The Apostle Paul wrote in a letter to Timothy, 'But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially of those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever,'" noted van Wyk. "Provision includes providing security. In fact our Lord Jesus taught, 'If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.'"
Quoting Jesus again, Van Wyk added, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and 'your neighbour as yourself,'" he said. "Are we loving our neighbor when we stand by and do nothing when he is being murdered or a woman is being raped?"
Van Wyk's experience in regions of Africa where criminals are armed but the citizenry is not has seasoned his perspective, but he warns that Americans cannot fail to be diligent in protecting their Second Amendment rights.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=94591
Interesting post runtowin, and its one I struggle with. I know this board is about guns not theology but its worth mentioning (since you bring it up ;D). I'm an Episcopalian, to probably no one's surprise, but I did teach 4 years at a Quaker school, and learned a lot from them. On the one hand, carrying a gun into a church seems like sacraliege, on the other, life happens, no matter where you are. Its a tough call. It brings up that question Rob keeps raising about should and could. I've recently decided to carry in church (thanks to advice from this board), but I don't like it. Se la guerre I suppose.
fightingquaker13
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Interesting post runtowin, and its one I struggle with. I know this board is about guns not theology but its worth mentioning (since you bring it up ;D). I'm an Episcopalian, to probably no one's surprise, but I did teach 4 years at a Quaker school, and learned a lot from them. On the one hand, carrying a gun into a church seems like sacraliege, on the other, life happens, no matter where you are. Its a tough call. It brings up that question Rob keeps raising about should and could. I've recently decided to carry in church (thanks to advice from this board), but I don't like it. Se la guerre I suppose.
fightingquaker13
The Disciples carried their swords everywhere.
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I have been approached by my pastors inquiring if I carry while at church and they are reassured that I do. However, that does not cover times when I or other sheepdogs are not there. They really need a plan.
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Until recently, I would have had a problem feeling comfortable carrying during church services. I always thought that if you were ever truly safe in any location it would be the church. The recent acts of violence perpetrated on these grounds have changed my mind, however. Many others in my congregation were enlightened far earlier than myself. In fact, some of the ushers, I was just recently informed, are required to carry due to security concerns which included threats against our pastor. It's a shame that their is no safe haven from evil in this world, but until I reach the next one, hostility will be met with return fire.
Swoop
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It is unfortunate that churches can't be sanctuaries. I appreciate the fact that some in the Downrange have recognized the need to make the church a safer place.
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CCW in church is still a no-no in GA. It came up for a legislative vote again this past session, but failed, again.
I believe it should be legal.
I do have some mixed emotions as to whether I would be at total ease with it for myself even though I CCW every day (but then again, are CCW folks ever at total ease?...but that's another thread). I would probably limit it to a small pocket pistol, JIC.
I guess to sum it up: I trust in God unwaveringly.........it's the evil souls here on earth I have a problem with.
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I would probably limit it to a small pocket pistol, JIC.
I guess to sum it up: I trust in God unwaveringly.........it's the evil souls here on earth I have a problem with.
I carry a S&W 642 in order to be as discreet as possible. The last line of your post immediately brought a t shirt I saw long ago to mind. It read: "Smile, Jesus loves you! It's the rest of us that think your an A-hole."
Swoop
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I carry a S&W 642 in order to be as discreet as possible. The last line of your post immediately brought a t shirt I saw long ago to mind. It read: "Smile, Jesus loves you! It's the rest of us that think your an A-hole."
Swoop
Darn, I didn't know you cared............It is nice to be thought of........I guess.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Just kidding...I know what you meant......I think....... :o
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Churches have NEVER been "Sanctuaries" unless the Parishoners were determined and prepared to make them so.
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I NEVER carried in church..................until several weeks ago when some mental case took umbrage at something that was said on the radio show and made a death threat. Now, not only do I carry in church, I have acquired a waterproof holster I carry in the frickin SHOWER!!!
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Interesting post runtowin, and its one I struggle with. I know this board is about guns not theology but its worth mentioning (since you bring it up ;D). I'm an Episcopalian, to probably no one's surprise, but I did teach 4 years at a Quaker school, and learned a lot from them. On the one hand, carrying a gun into a church seems like sacraliege, on the other, life happens, no matter where you are. Its a tough call. It brings up that question Rob keeps raising about should and could. I've recently decided to carry in church (thanks to advice from this board), but I don't like it. Se la guerre I suppose.
fightingquaker13
If you read the Bible instead of just referencing it, Jesus was hard on his people, making sure they were armed. And He did not eschew violence himself, forging a whip and physically driving the money changers out of the Temple in Jersulaem.
When Peter cut the ear off the man in the Garden, Jesus did not chide him for his violence, but simply told him to put his sword away, as what was happening was supposed to happen.
We are all challenged - mandated - to be warriors and stand up to evil. If you want to do that unarmed, be my guest. If you don't like carrying in church, then do not carry. Armed and not wanting to be is as useless as not being armed when you need to be. If you don't want to drop the hammer in church in fear of offending someone - including yourself - then do not drop the hammer - stand up unarmed. Otherwise you will hesitate just enough to die with the rest and not stop the evil in your midst.
Fools must hold a very special place in God's Plan, as he made so many of them.
That said, ND forbids CCW in churches. We lost the proposed changes to the law this session, will have to wait another 2 years for the next session.
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I carry in church. There's got to be 1/2 dozen men I know in the church that carry.
At a past church, our pastor has received death threats, had their pets killed, tires slashed, etc. I know other pastors that have received death threats...even as far back as the 60's (and that one was for preaching the Ten Commandments).
If your pastor/congregation sanctions carry in church, I would think that is a religious decision outside the purview of the state.
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The tradition of the "Warrior Priests" such as the Templar's , and even the defensive nature of many Monasteries, Cathedrals and Churches, When Gothic builders put those crenelations along the walls, they were thinking of Archery positions during a seige, The early settlers up here in New England, were required to present their weapons for inspection at Church each week. How else would one defend a "Sanctuary" than by having weapons there?
As to FQ's post, He quotes "Interesting post runtowin, and its one I struggle with. I know this board is about guns not theology but its worth mentioning (since you bring it up Grin). I'm an Episcopalian, to probably no one's surprise, but I did teach 4 years at a Quaker school, and learned a lot from them. On the one hand, carrying a gun into a church seems like sacraliege, on the other, life happens, no matter where you are. Its a tough call. It brings up that question Rob keeps raising about should and could. I've recently decided to carry in church (thanks to advice from this board), but I don't like it. Se la guerre I suppose.
fightingquaker13
In reality it's about whatever catches our collective interests. I'm serious, if it were not for the side tracks of life and the large family squabbling this would read like the transcript of a debate society.
We practice for our enemies, by fighting among our selves ;D
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In reality it's about whatever catches our collective interests. I'm serious, if it were not for the side tracks of life and the large family squabbling this would read like the transcript of a debate society.
We practice for our enemies, by fighting among our selves ;D
Very good point, indeed.
It's the variety on here that makes it different from some forums out there that are about as much fun as watching C-Span while sober. Technically this is a firearms related forum and we all mostly stick to that, but the daily diversions and insights into each others personalities is what makes DRTV better than most.
JMHO.
8)
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Shiny stuff ;D
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Shiny stuff ;D
Boobs.
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Shiny stuff ;D
Yeah.....like a 9+ page thread about COFFEE..........jeez.......
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Boobs.
Boobs is good.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Boobs are better than coffee.....!!! ;D
I have it on good authority!
Shiney turds!!!! :P Not so good....
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Boobs.
Where? :o
Ok, I'm off to the corner now.
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Ok, I'm off to the corner now.
I'll bring the beer....