Author Topic: New trigger suggestions for my AR-15  (Read 4999 times)

Paraguy

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New trigger suggestions for my AR-15
« on: May 31, 2010, 03:20:52 PM »
I have a Bushmaster .223 used for target shooting, both indoor short range and hopefully long range some day as time permits.  It goes bang every time I pull the trigger and missing the target is 100% on the operator, but was hoping to get tighter groups and faster shots with a new trigger.
Right now I am leaning towards a Timney single stage 3lb trigger with the hopes that it will keep me steady while shooting and is half way priced between the RRA National Match 2 stage and the Wilson Combat, Jewell and AMerican Trigger Corp ones I have seen online.  Bigger problem is that I have not tried any of them and am going off what I read in reviews, and as you know, they range from "this is the worst waste of $" to "I put one on every one I have and I have 7."

Thoughts, suggestions, relevant experiences?
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bafsu92

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Re: New trigger suggestions for my AR-15
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2010, 08:50:41 PM »
I have the Alexander Arms Tactical Trigger on most of my AR's. I build quite a few custom rifles and this is my 1st choice. The quality is as good as any and the price is less than most. My second overall choice is the Geissele Super Semi Auto. Timney makes a good product but I personally don't like the drop in assemblies. If it is strictly a target rifle then I'm ok with them but if you're using it for any defensive or tactical application I don't like the drop in boxes. Stoner designed the AR trigger area to be open for a reason, things don't get stuck in there very easily. Your filling so much of that area up with the drop in trigger assemblies that there is no room for error. The smallest crud getting lodged in one of those tight spaces and your rifle doesn't go bang. Personally I don't want to take that chance but that is strictly my opinion.
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your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse." - Unknown

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fightingquaker13

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Re: New trigger suggestions for my AR-15
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2010, 08:59:21 PM »
All I can say about triggers is this. Three pounds is light. Its inside the bounds of sanity, but its pushing it for anything other than a range toy. Use your judgement, but think about it. You are essentially talking about a cocked DA revolver. The Booger hook/bang switch rule needs to be paramount. Personally, I prefer a heavier two stage trigger. One to take up the slack, and then down to the sneeze and it will go off for your final squeeze. You probably didn't need this post. I just felt obligated to play "safety pup" because someone had to. Give us a report when you decide.
FQ13

alfsauve

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Re: New trigger suggestions for my AR-15
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2010, 10:05:26 PM »
Just a thought. 

I was confuse by the term "National Match".  It doesn't mean a "match" trigger as in super light varmint/sniper usage might suggest,  but refers to NRA High Power rules which require a 4 1/2 pound trigger pull.  So if you're looking for a varmint/sniper trigger then NM may not be the choice.   But if you're primarily going for tactical, then NM is a better choice.  Besides the NRA, I'm sure a number of other match rules may have the same minimum.

Single unit triggers, like Timney, do have an advantage of being independent of any variations with the hole spacing on the lower.  A couple of mils in the distance of those hole can make a difference to regular triggers.  Not that I've heard that has ever been a problem, but in my mind it's one less worry when selecting a lower.    Timney's are available in both 3-1/2 target and 4-1/2 NM.

Will work for ammo
USAF MAC 437th MAW 1968-1972

Big Frank

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Re: New trigger suggestions for my AR-15
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2010, 11:04:44 PM »
JARD triggers are available as light as 1-1/2 pounds, single stage or two stage. I have one but haven't shot my rifle since I installed it.
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

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Re: New trigger suggestions for my AR-15
« Reply #5 on: Today at 05:21:35 AM »

fightingquaker13

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Re: New trigger suggestions for my AR-15
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2010, 11:23:21 PM »
JARD triggers are available as light as 1-1/2 pounds, single stage or two stage. I have one but haven't shot my rifle since I installed it.
You are a braver man than I Jumbo. I appreciate the accuracy, but anything below 4 pounds in a single stage scares the crap out me if you are going to use it for hunting or SD. On the range, its a different story (particularly  for European style set triggers which I wish had caught on here). Still, even on the range, 1.5 pounds in a single stage with an AR seems like an accident waiting to happen. Your mileage varies and that's cool as its your gun. Me, I just know that I can be a bit clumsy at times.
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bafsu92

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Re: New trigger suggestions for my AR-15
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2010, 11:56:46 AM »
You are a braver man than I Jumbo. I appreciate the accuracy, but anything below 4 pounds in a single stage scares the crap out me if you are going to use it for hunting or SD. On the range, its a different story (particularly  for European style set triggers which I wish had caught on here). Still, even on the range, 1.5 pounds in a single stage with an AR seems like an accident waiting to happen. Your mileage varies and that's cool as its your gun. Me, I just know that I can be a bit clumsy at times.
FQ13
I agree, unless it's strictly a precision target rifle I like my trigger pull in the 3.5 - 4# range. I like my AR trigger to be pretty close to my 1911 triggers. Being clean, free of extra slack or grit is way more important than weight alone. I feel like anything less than 3#, especially in a single stage is a recipe for disaster in any type of stress scenario.
Cogito, ergo armatum sum

"Capitalization is the difference between helping
your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse." - Unknown

"Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional illogical liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous liberal press,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - Unknown

m25operator

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Re: New trigger suggestions for my AR-15
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2010, 05:14:16 PM »
Ah, trigger weights, too heavy, too light, SD or Target, and all points are valid. But lets redefine the question, to safe, versus Unsafe, A safe trigger, regardless of weight, won't go off, unless, deliberately operated. And unsafe trigger, and they are out there, can go off, without deliberate operation, the model 600 Remington had such an issue, a model 700, that is adjusted, under 3lbs, can have this problem, not to mention the 700 recall, whereby, if the safety was on, and the trigger was depressed, it would not go off at that point, but when the safety was disengaged, BANNNNG. Trigger jobs gone wrong, so that the weight of the trigger, is heavy enough to allow it to go bang, 1911's as well as rifles, if set down too hard, should not be a problem if the safety was set before setting down too hard, although with adjustable rifle triggers, it still might happen when the safety is disengaged, so I always check my rifles, by bumping the butt pad hard on the floor ( empty chamber of course ) and I do mean hard, to see if it will fire, both safety on and safety off.

Now to the original question, AR triggers, I will pass this on, as it covers different views, from different directions.

26 May 10

Comments from a colleague who just returned from Urban Rifle Training with
another colleague:

"... a blown-out primer lodged under my AR trigger, rendering the
fire-control group (and thus the entire rifle) useless until I removed the
hammer
and pin, which allowed sufficient trigger-clearance to allow the wedged
primer fall out.

At the Course there were also ARs with 'anti-rotation' trigger/hammer
pins.  Since these employ small screws (with Loctite), what was, for me, a
two-minute gun-fix, becomes a tedious, convoluted, exasperating process,
involving tiny wrenches and tiny parts.

Several other ARs had 'packaged-triggers.'  These are self-contained,
sealed, and in one drop-in unit. I don't know if a stray primer or anvil can

make their way into such a mechanism, but when they do, it will be all but
impossible to get them out, at least in the field.

Thus, I recommend only standard, military, plain-vanilla triggers on all
serious ARs!  The trigger that came with your AR is probably just fine and
should be left alone!"

Comment: Me too!

In the aftermath of the famous Battle of Belleau Wood in Europe in 1918,
Germans described US Marines as "... vigorous, self-confident, ...
remarkable
marksmen!"  US General Pershing, went even further, noting "The deadliest
weapon in the world is a US Marine and his rifle!"

Rifles used by Marines in 1918 were simple, even primitive, by today's
standards, yet they made history.  German soldiers were terrified!

Marines in 1918 didn't obsess about "target triggers."  They had a  good
rifle, and it worked.

They made it work!

/John
______________

The author is John Farnham. As a trainer, he sees a lot of what works and does not, and why. I have never had an AR blow a primer, but did on my M1A, luckily the bullet exited, the action did not cycle, smoked the hell out of the magazine, and a quick check showed no blocked bore. Hit the charging handle and off to the races. Only happened once, but a real life moment.

Also, John is seeing more of this, when 5.56 is fired in a .223 chamber.

Back again to the original question, I like the Accuracy Speaks trigger, the trigger nose is cut at a different angle, and that's what makes the difference, honest 3.5lb trigger with no creep, and a lightened hammer, his book is excellent, Derrick Martin, competitor and Gunsmith, the reason AR triggers as supplied from the various factories feels crappy, is the angle of the trigger nose, it is cocking the hammer further on application, just pull your fire control parts out, and mount them on the left side of the receiver with the pins installed, and pull the trigger while watching the operation of the trigger and hammer, it will be real obvious. Next the NM triggers, like Alf said, not real light, but 2 stage and very usable, you might think they are lighter than they are, but they are 4.5 - 5.5 lb pulls, but feel good. Geiselle automatics, a very fine trigger, I have two, including the Super match, that came adjusted to 1.5lbs, 2 stage, 1lb take up and .5lb let off, it really was too light, readjusted to 2.5lbs, and that's real nice. Light triggers are not a problem, unless you run around with your booger hook on the bang switch, then well, yeah, when it is time to shoot, I like a predictable light trigger, My M1a does not have one, and I shoot expert with it, I own 2 rifles with single set triggers and love them, 4lb normal, 8oz set.

As said before, your mileage may vary.
" The Pact, to defend, if not TO AVENGE '  Tarna the Tarachian.

Big Frank

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Re: New trigger suggestions for my AR-15
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2010, 06:28:14 PM »
I should have said I have a JARD trigger but not a lightweight one. I think mine is 4 or 5 pounds. It's a non-adjustable drop in fit. Just dry firing a few times it felt good. On my other rifle I did my own trigger job, but I don't recommend it. It feels about the same. Smooth but not too light. I hope I didn't stone away any surface hardening. If I did I still have an extra trigger group.
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE - A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

 

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