A phrase that lots of gun owners use that just pisses me off..

[TAB]

I take that as progress, and perhaps some legal acknowledgment that the mall, as a business entity, has a liability exposure if they fail to adequately protect CCW licensed customers who have been rendered defenseless by no guns restrictions.

That will never happen.  If the police don't have to protect you( and there have been several rulings saying that they don't) no way a private company would be liable for that.

[jaybet]

My .02.

Here in FL the law states that the State occupies the whole field on gun regulations, meaning you can't change them.  The state law lists places you cannot carry. So I read it this way.  A mall cannot post 'no guns' but private property is just that, private (by direct invitation only).  If I work at a business that is open to the public then it is no longer 'private'.

Haz makes a good point here...
Properties that invite the public in (businesses etc.) fall under different regulations for building codes, etc. They are considered public and must provide for the public with such as barrier free access, hand rails, etc.  The fact that they DO invite the public in restricts their rights as private property owners in many ways, and it could be argued that in such places the rights of the public supersede those of the property owner.
But I'm a jackass, not a lawyer. Wait...they're the same thing...OK I'm a...this will take awhile....

[TAB]

lets take that point to another right...

what if it was not a CC ,the issue was free speach, and by free speach I mean the wearing of a KKK outfit.  Would it be ok for a shop owner to stop some one wearing that from entering thier store?


You can't have something apply to one right, but not another.

[Hazcat]

Far as I know you could not legally stop them.  No shoes no shirt is actually a health reg and or decency codes.

[TAB]

thats funny... FL has more jacked up laws then CA does... 


My point is would we be having this convo if it was not about guns? ( not talking about here, but in general)

One of my bigest complaints about the gun commuity as a whole is, they only  tend to see the 2nd amendment... they some how miss the other 26 amendments and the 7 articals in the text.

[Sponsor]

[Hazcat]

thats funny... FL has more jacked up laws then CA does... 


My point is would we be having this convo if it was not about guns? ( not talking about here, but in general)

One of my bigest complaints about the gun commuity as a whole is, they only  tend to see the 2nd amendment... they some how miss the other 26 amendments and the 7 articals in the text.

What laws are to refering to?

As to the rest, this is a gun forum so we tend to concentrate on the 2nd but the others come up as they and the 2nd interact.

[Rastus]

If I render an opinion in the middle of the woods and my wife does not hear me, am I still wrong? 

You really had to ask?  

Fortunately, I live in Oklahoma.  In places of public business our CCW laws make it illegal to carry where you are not wanted...however penalty wise...if you mess up and show and a store owners asks you to leave, you are supposed to leave.  Let's say you don't leave after being asked and they call the police and the police show up and then they will tell you that you must leave.  If you do not leave, you will be charged for tresspassing...please I really have more important things to do than to book you, drive you downtown, release you upon issuing a $75 fine that you probably won't have to pay.  

Kewl, eh?

Also, the laws (in and out of court right now) protecting citizens right to bear arms are being extended to the company parking lot.  The law says you can have a gun in your car (CCW or not in an approved configuration) and that the right to carry must be extended to the parking lot or you are being denied your rights.  Google is setting up operations in central Oklahoma with a vehement disgust and exclusion of guns....just wait until someone is accosted and could have protected himself and you are going to see a lawsuit easily in the tens of millions of dollars for reason of firearm exclusion in a parking lot by a company.  The hometown lawyers are salivating waiting for someone's misfortune right now...and in this case...that's all right with me.

However, the law is more forboding if you are discovered with CCW in the workplace.  You can be fired.  If the company really presses it, sends lawyers, guns and money (OK MB...we both know I stole that line) then, maybe, I don't know, possibly, not always, but you may lose your CCW license in addition to your job.  

[TAB]

You really had to ask?  

Fortunately, I live in Oklahoma.  In places of public business our CCW laws make it illegal to carry where you are not wanted...however penalty wise...if you mess up and show and a store owners asks you to leave, you are supposed to leave.  Let's say you don't leave after being asked and they call the police and the police show up and then they will tell you that you must leave.  If you do not leave, you will be charged for tresspassing...please I really have more important things to do than to book you, drive you downtown, release you upon issuing a $75 fine that you probably won't have to pay.  

Kewl, eh?

no thats not kewl... if there is no punishment, it won't stop any one from doing it.  at the very least it needs to be an infraction.(ticket and fine)

Breaking the law, is breaking the law, it does not matter how much sugar you add to it.

[TAB]

What laws are to refering to?

In CA you can refuse service as well as access, to your place of biz...( other life saving medical treatment)   for pretty much any reason.


Now having a sign saying " no blacks"  is going to get you in a world of hurt, but asking them to leave is fine.  you are also allowed to restrict any object.(unless there is a law that says... you must wear this)   for example I could make a rule that to enter my shop you have to be naked... I would just have to restrict those that can not be in that envroment( minors)


I should also point out that you still have to meet the ADA stuff and have access, but thats a civil matter... and the only real protected class these days.

[charliefarmerboy33]

In Missouri, there is, like most states, the list of places it is illegal to carry (i.e. schools, churches etc.) but local businesses like the grocery store I no longer go to, that post "NO Weapons" it is not a crime to carry. All they can do is ask you to leave. If you refuse the police can be called and ask you to leave. If you refuse then, they can write you a ticket for a misdemeanor offense, or (although there have been no cases of precedent yet) the police can confiscate your weapon if they believe you have criminal intent.
Most CCWs like myself refuse to do business with those who demonstrate they don't want my business. I make a point of speaking to the manager a store that is posted and explain why I will no longer patronize his establishment.