Author Topic: Glock pistols and lead Bullet?  (Read 9089 times)

fightingquaker13

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Re: Glock pistols and lead Bullet?
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2010, 02:24:55 AM »
I agree mauserman. I'm all for saving money, and I will shoot cheap surplus crap on the range. BUT, I clean religously afterwards and wouldn't dream of having that stuff as "go to" ammo. A Glock is not a precision frearm. Its not fancy like a nice 1911 or  a British SxS shotgun. Its just  a tool. I compare a Glock to a fencing tool. A hammer, wire cutter, pliers and pry bar all in one. Not the best for any job, but good enough for all  jobs. I think a Glock with good quality ammo and even half assed maintainence, is the second most reliable concealable firearm out there with the exception of a snubby.  Its not the best at anything, but good enough for everything. Buy a snubby, a Kimber, or an XD and I won't quibble. But, I know my G-26 or G-19 will go bang and hit 4" at ten yards every time. What we want for SD is a reliable tool for an ugly job. In my opinion, if you follow the manual, you get AK performance out of a Glock. Are there better guns out there? Yes. Are you ever going to have your Glock fail you? No.
FQ13

Fatman

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Re: Glock pistols and lead Bullet?
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2010, 06:20:14 AM »
this from wiki, so take it as you will.  Glock does use octagonal rifling in their .45, hexagonal in smaller calibers.  I would just follow Glock's recommendations, it is their design.

How would cast bullets work in poly barrels?

Quote
Lead bullets and polygonal rifling
   This section may contain original research. Please improve it by verifying the claims made and adding references. Statements consisting only of original research may be removed. More details may be available on the talk page. (September 2009)

The manufacturer Glock advises against using lead bullets (meaning bullets not covered by a copper jacket) in their polygonally rifled barrels, which has led to a widespread belief that polygonal rifling is not compatible with lead bullets. Firearms expert and barrel maker, the late Gale McMillan, has also commented that lead bullets and polygonal rifling are not a good mix. Some have made a point of the fact that neither H&K nor Kahr explicitly recommend against lead bullets in their polygonal rifled barrels, and feel that it is probable that there is an additional factor involved in Glock's warning. However, Kahr's FAQ does include a warning that lead bullets can cause additional fouling[5] and recommends special attention to cleaning after using them. In addition, while H&K doesn't warn against the use of lead, at least one well-documented catastrophic incident in an H&K pistol[6] appears to be related to this issue. Furthermore, Dave Spaulding, well-known gun writer, reported in the February/March 2008 issue of Handguns Magazine that when he queried H&K about their polygonally rifled barrels that they commented: "It has been their experience that polygonal rifling will foul with lead at a greater rate than will conventional rifling."

One suggestion of what the "additional factor involved in Glock's warning" might be is that Glock barrels have a fairly sharp transition between the chamber and the rifling, and this area is prone to lead buildup if lead bullets are used. This buildup may result in failures to fully return to battery, allowing the gun to fire with the case not fully supported by the chamber, leading to a potentially dangerous case failure. However, since this sharp transition is found on most autopistols this speculation is of limited value. The sharp transition or "lip" at the front of the chamber is required to "headspace" the cartridge in most autopistols.

Another possible explanation is that there are different "species" of polygonal rifle and perhaps Glock's peculiar style of polygonal rifling may be more prone to leading than the particular styles employed in the H&K and Kahr barrels.

Leading is the buildup of lead in the bore that happens in nearly all firearms firing high velocity lead bullets. This lead buildup must be cleaned out regularly, or the barrel will gradually become constricted resulting in higher than normal discharge pressures. In the extreme case, increased discharge pressures can result in a catastrophic incident.
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Me: Naw, we just apply a gun-shaped remedy to those extreme life threatening situations that call for it. All the less urgent problems we're willing to discuss.

billt

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Re: Glock pistols and lead Bullet?
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2010, 09:14:00 AM »
So defective factory ammo is just as as bad as defective re-loads.

Yes and no. One of the things that I have not seen addressed here concerning reloaded ammunition fired in Glocks involves the cases, not the bullets themselves. Glocks feed ammunition very well. Any ammunition. Hardball, as well as all of the flat point, personal defense ammo. They do this because of the unsupported chamber design that is incorporated into every Glock pistol, regardless of caliber.

As is often said in engineering, you don't get something for nothing. While this heavy throating delivers excellent feeding, and high shot to shot reliability, it causes the cases to bulge severely at the base upon firing. This is especially true with the heavier +P and +P+ ammunition all Glock pistols are rated for. When these cases are run through a full length resizing die the brass at the base of the cartridge case is worked very heavily in order to bring it back to factory SAAMI specifications. When brass is worked it becomes work hardened and brittle. This can cause the case to rupture on the next firing. This is especially true in heavy, major power factor handloads, and if the case should just happen to chamber in the same rotational position it was in when fired originally.

This is the reason Glock specifically states reloads, any reloads, regardless if they contain jacketed or lead bullets, should not be fired in their pistols. Yes, many people do shoot reloads in Glocks without incident, just as many drink and drive and get away with it. But with that said, the odds are against you if you choose to do it. For me the risk doesn't equal the reward.

The brass that has been fired in Glocks is by no means useless, it just needs to be fired in a supported chamber after reloading. There are aftermarket barrels avaliable for Glocks that have these type of chambers. This will negate the problem. I simply segregate my factory brass that has been run through my Glocks, and after reloading it, I shoot it in my Sig's, or other weapons that have a more supported condition in the rear of the chamber area. I also keep the pressure down in these reloads as well. All of this helps in not winding up with a ruptured case that can damage your firearm, as well as you, should it let go.  Bill T.

 

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