What's the deal with these "trusts" that I hear about ?

[tombogan03884]

Mauler, that's your cue.   

[mauler]

I'm not trying to violate any terms of service.  If this is forbidden, then by all means, mods remove this. 

The benefits of an NFA Trust are as follows:

Privacy - the trust is not filed with any city, county or State government entity. Your trust and your name do not show up on any government database other than the tax rolls of the BATFE.  Since the forms and your trust are considered to be tax related information, your information is protected from most disclosure requests.


No Filing Fees:   Once the trust is created, there are no filing fees associated with the trust.


The Trust does not submit fingerprint cards with a form 1 or form 4.


The Trust does not submit a photograph with a form 1 or a form 4.


The Trust does not have to ask a chief law enforcement officer to approve the form with his signature.


NO MORE WASTING YOUR TIME! You no longer have to do the individual-form-4 routine.  You do not have to gather up fingerprints and photographs and make the trip to your CLEO and explain your need for an item regulated by the NFA EVERY time you want to purchase an NFA item.


The Trust is flexible. It may be amended as your needs and requirements change in the future.


There are no requirements for annual meetings or reports.


The Trust may be used to purchase and own as many NFA regulated (Title II) weapons as the settlor wants to put in the trust.


Multiple individuals can be listed as the trustees, thus allowing more than one person to have legal access to the weapons and protecting family members.


If the transfer of NFA firearms becomes prohibited, the trust will help continue to protect the title II items for generations to come.


The NFA Trust protects the settler from incapacity.  If you become incapacitated you are able to choose, through the trust, who you want to manage the estate created by the trust and safeguard your collection of Title II weapons. This also protects your family and friends from possessing items regulated by the National firearms act that are not registered to them.

Many citizens who lived through the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and the 1986 Machine gun Ban are interested in Reducing the Risk of Legal Changes pertaining to items regulated by the National firearms Act.  An NFA Trust is the registered owner of the items regulated by the National Firearms Act. The owners of the trust may change, but the registered owner, the NFA Trust, remains the same and no transfer has taken place under the National Firearms Act.

[mauler]

I should also add that, in Georgia, there are some county sheriffs who believe that "only military and law enforcement should have such things", mostly in the metro Atlanta.  I always get a warm fuzzy feeling when someone calls me from one of those counties to set up a trust. 

[Magoo541]

I have heard that a trust set up with a software program like Quicken works for NFA items.  I have also heard, on Tom Gresham's Gun Talk that those types of trust do leave some legal exposure when it comes to NFA.  Mauler, you set these up for people, how do your trust differ from the Quicken variety?

[ske1eter]

I have my two suppressors via a revocable living trust. Is there any way to add a provision or additional section to the trust to allow others access to these NFA items yet restrict them access to other things (bank accounts, home, etc)? A friend of mine has had a trust set up by a lawyer which he located via guntrustlawyer.com that when signed and implemented will allow me to gain access to his "upcoming" NFA items.

[Sponsor]

[tombogan03884]

Thanks Mauler.

[mauler]

I have heard that a trust set up with a software program like Quicken works for NFA items.  I have also heard, on Tom Gresham's Gun Talk that those types of trust do leave some legal exposure when it comes to NFA.  Mauler, you set these up for people, how do your trust differ from the Quicken variety?

I have never looked at one of the Quicken variety trusts.  I will tell you that while I was doing research on this topic I had a friend of mine get a copy of his friend's trust that was one of those the-gun-dealer-gave-me-this-form-I-don't-have-to-get-a-lawyer-specials.  I was rather appalled when I looked at it.  It was a 4 page fill in the blank revocable living trust form that one could have purchased at an office supply store.  It made no mention of the NFA, the corresponding Georgia statutes or firearms at all.  It also did not deal at all with the potential incapacity of the settlor, nor the legal and safe transfer of NFA items to beneficiaries.  While this trust was purportedly approved by the BATFE, it struck me as being wholly inadequate for any person wanting to possess NFA items in trust presently, and for passing items on to beneficiaries in the future.  My trust is usually around 28-30 pages depending on what my client's particular needs are.  I charge somewhere in the $400 range to set one up, so the cost is not prohibitive.  I really can't fathom why someone would want to spend thousands of dollars on Class III items, but would then cut corners on setting up an adequate trust thereby exposing themselves and their heirs to potential ATF problems. 

[Magoo541]

I figured it was something like that Mauler, thanks.  I am a firm believer in paying experts to do the heavy lifting, especially when there is a good chance that any mistakes can land you in jail. 

I may be in contact with you Mauler, once I finish school and have some free time 

[mauler]

I have my two suppressors via a revocable living trust. Is there any way to add a provision or additional section to the trust to allow others access to these NFA items yet restrict them access to other things (bank accounts, home, etc)? A friend of mine has had a trust set up by a lawyer which he located via guntrustlawyer.com that when signed and implemented will allow me to gain access to his "upcoming" NFA items.

Yes.  The person authorized to make amendments on the trust (likely the settlor/grantor) is very likely authorized by the terms of the trust to add or remove trustees who could possess and use the items.  The amendment would need to detail exactly what powers are being granted to the new trustee(s).

[DeltaM]

Follow-up on this old thread.  I had a trust set up by an attorney back in October of last year, before the latest crisis.  At the time, my Class 3 dealer said the Fed was starting to kick out, i.e. return the Legal-Zoom/Quicken fill in-the-blank type trusts.  I'm sure it is even worse now.

It takes so much time and aggravation I say do it right and not on the cheap.  Get a competent attorney experienced in such matters.