"Should" versus "Could"

[cooptire]

Therein lies the most of the problem for me. While I know that I will do what it takes to protect my wife and kids, I can agonize over what "it" is or needs to be. I could very easily shoot some punk attempting to carjack me while one or all of my kids are with me. On the other hand, in my house, I would most likely be much more reticent to shoot. Lots of kids in my neighborhood, and in my house. While I try to always make sure of the "hardness" of my house (target), I can never be sure that my kids haven't left something open or as they get older, called a friend over. They do and will know how serious late night shenanigans of ANY kind can be but as one saying goes, "Good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgement." Of course this could be decidedly different for my wife if she is home without me. I have lain awake for hours many a night running "scenarios" through my head trying to think of everything. And anyone who knows me, knows how much work thinking is for me! 

There is certainly no simple answer to this. I just hope that I will have the clarity of mind or thought to make the proper decision at the proper time. Well, and the training and ability to follow through with whatever the decision is.

At work so I can't follow through with my feelings completely, witch I'm sure is a relief to anyone who has read this far.

[ratcatcher55]

"most shielded position I unlocked and opened the door and stepped back into the shadows."

In one case in PA the act of opening the door was seen as an invitation to enter by the court, resulting in a manslaughter conviction for the home owner for shooting a drunk naked man in his house. The drunk naked young man did not follow the orders of the homeowner, continued to advance and did not see the pistol that was being pointed at him.

In this case the drunk naked man did not threaten anybody so there was no intent to do bodily harm. Opening the door eliminated any breaking and entering, burglary or a just cause defense. The homeowner was in truly in fear for his life, was on the phone to 911, and the police officer was less than 1 minute away before the shots were fired.

The man wandered out of his parents house to take a leak, it was believed he got confused and tried to enter a neighbors house.

I would strongly suggest don't open the door. 

[ericire12]

In one case in PA the act of opening the door was seen as an invitation to enter by the court, resulting in a manslaughter conviction for the home owner for shooting a drunk naked man in his house.

It varies from state to state...... In my neck of the woods, even if I invite a person into my home, once I tell them to leave and they refuse it is no different then if they broke in. Unwelcomed is unwelcomed.

Thats why it is kinda important not to take advice about this sort of thing from people off the internet. Check your local laws.

[ratcatcher55]

Ericire12,

I agree with you about knowing the rules of engagement. MB had backup when he did what he did as well.

My point might be better stated as your defense in using deadly force may appear better to a jury if the late Mr. Deadguy broke down the door that you letting him in.

[ericire12]

Ericire12,

I agree with you about knowing the rules of engagement. MB had backup when he did what he did as well.

My point might be better stated as your defense in using deadly force may appear better to a jury if the late Mr. Deadguy broke down the door that you letting him in.

I agree. Even if I asked them to leave and they were starting to get hostile, I probably would not introduce a weapon to the situation unless faced with a weapon or the threat of extreme bodily harm.... a jury is always an unknown quantity.

[Sponsor]

[Michael Bane]

That is totally why you must know the laws of your home state, and you need to hire an attorney to do that!

In Florida, I was golden. I also did not have small children, and my spousal unit at the time was a USPSA Section Coordinator...

Michael B

[Rob10ring]

In my state, we are not protected by any castle doctrine. If we have to shoot someone and it goes to trial, the instruction to the jury is going to be along the lines of "what would a reasonable person have done?". Some of the DA's treat this automatically as you are not the reasonable person and some don't. We don't have a lot of consistency in California, even less when it comes to CCW. I just  don't want to shoot anyone if I don't have to. Having little ones makes things a little more urgent when things go bump, so when I can, I avoid lights at first and try to stay stealth while I ascertain if there is indeed a threat. I carry my pistol with the muzzle down and my Surefire in my weak hand, thumb on the switch. Luckily, this method hasn't been put to the test ever.

When I was single, I lived with my brother. One night someone tried to come through a window at 1:30AM. They started to get it pried open and that woke me up. I retrieved a handgun and went and listened to the whispering outside the window. It turned out that it was some of my brother's friends who were drunk. I put the gun away and let them in. After discussing the "situation" with them, they never tried that again. These guys were losers, but they were basically good guys. I'm awfully thankful fo a cool head.

[PoorSoulInJersey]

My home defense strategy is reliant on the cell phone, shotgun, and 9mm in the bedroom.

My wife and I don't have kids, so we have no reason to go out searching. We can wait in the bedroom after we've called the cops. It's a 3rd floor bedroom, so we have nowhere to retreat to.

If someone kicks in the bedroom door, they will be getting a chest full of buckshot pretty quickly. I cannot imagine any reason to kick in a locked bedroom door that does not include bodily harm to me and/or my wife. I think it's a pretty clear self-defense situation at that point.

[weads]

Rob,

What do you think of Massad Ayoob's theories on home defense? In this context, I live alone and if the alarm goes off, someone has already committed a felony in this state and we have a "modified" castle doctrine here. I assume they are fair game as it would take some malicious effort to gain entry here as opposed to a misguided drunk.

I have already encountered the "broke down vehicle" scenario as I live adjacent to a main state highway. I am a target of opportunity as this highway will connect a vehicle to a Interstate on one end and another State on the other in 10 minutes either way. During the scenario, someone limped into the development in a vehicle in front of my house and gave a good show of attempting to restart the auto. After 20 minutes, they came to the front door and rang the bell. The storm door is full steel framed with safety glass and a three point locking mechanism. I opened the main door and had a .45 visibly holstered on my hip and told them I would be glad to call the sheriff's office for them. Amazingly another car appeared, and after conversing both parties left.

That was easy as home invasions are all the rage in this area right now.      

Kelly

[Rob10ring]

My home defense strategy is reliant on the cell phone, shotgun, and 9mm in the bedroom.

My wife and I don't have kids, so we have no reason to go out searching. We can wait in the bedroom after we've called the cops. It's a 3rd floor bedroom, so we have nowhere to retreat to.

If someone kicks in the bedroom door, they will be getting a chest full of buckshot pretty quickly. I cannot imagine any reason to kick in a locked bedroom door that does not include bodily harm to me and/or my wife. I think it's a pretty clear self-defense situation at that point.

I'd pretty much agree with all of this, maybe adding that if I heard someone on the other side of the door, I might very loudly state my intent if they enter and it would be a big plus to have a police dispatcher on the line to overhear that.

You may want to add a good bright flashlight to that emergency pacj in your bedroom.