Ammunition Selection: Heavy and Slow or Light and Fast

[fullautovalmet76]

I didn't know if this belonged in another forum, but I thought it might apply here.

I have read that the 230 gr. .45 ACP round is well suited for self defense. The reason is that it has enough mass to penetrate different types of clothing to hit the vital spots. On the other hand, I have read that a 185 gr. .45 ACP is better because it has enough velocity to do the job. The same goes for 9mm rounds. Note: I am referring to JHP rounds in all of these examples.....

In terms of self defense, what type of round do you think is best and why? Or does it matter; should I shoot regular ball ammo and forget about the trick ammo? I have an opinion on this but I want to hear what everyone else has to say before I jump in with what I think. I look forward to some interesting discussions..... 

[tombogan03884]

 I use 230 gr. JHP. It may not drop them on the spot but it should make them stop doing what I shot them for, that's all I care about. If they decide to do something else I have to shoot them for I've got another mag to cover "plan B".

[SigShooter]

I've been looking at various makers and I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to buying DoubleTap ammo for all my defensive needs. They load the execellent Speer Gold Dot in a variety of loadings, but I'll just list the loadings for the .45 ACP and 9mm (the source of the date is their website). 


Gold Dot loadings for .45 ACP (they claim all of their .45 loadings are "just shy of a +P rating!")

185 gr. JHP 1225fps - 616 ft./lbs. - 5" 1911

200 gr. JHP 1125fps - 562 ft./lbs. - 5" 1911

230 gr. JHP 1010fps - 521 ft./lbs. - 5" 1911

They also produce a FMJ 230 gr. loading and a FMJ-FP 230 gr. loading, both of which have identical velocities and energy to the GDHP.


For the 9mm Gold Dot loadings (all of which are +P rated)

115 gr. JHP 1415fps / 511ft. lbs. from a G17

124 gr. JHP 1310fps / 473ft. lbs. from a G17

147 gr. JHP 1135fps / 421ft. lbs. from a G17

They also produce a 147 gr. FMJ-FP with identical velocity and energy to the GDHP.


The best part about DoubleTap ammo is that they sell their ammo in real quantities! They package their ammunition in 50 round boxes instead of 20 round boxes. And instead of charging you $1 or $1.50 per round they charge about $.61 for the 9mm and $.70 for the .45 ACP.

Also, if you can't decide what .45 loading to get, choose the variety pack. You choose any three of the five loadings for about $100. They also make a couple variety packs for their 10mm loadings as well.

My DoubleTap ammo is on the way to me. I don't work for the company or know anybody who does, but if it is as they say, I'll be very happy. Their 230 gr. GDHP is currently on back order, but the president of the company (Mike McNett) let me switch out the GDHP for the FMJ-FP since it has the same ballistics and bullet profile for purposes of function/controllability testing. Execellent customer service.

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php

[twyacht]

Good side by side comparison based on known investigated shootings.

Works for all calibers:

http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=18&Weight=All

The relative penetration difference in 185gr to 230gr is roughly an inch. Diameter is from .62" to .78" with 80 to 96% 1 shot stops.

The data for the 9mm is also interesting from the 115gr all the way to the 147gr.

IMHO, the smaller the caliber, the faster the bullet.

[Timothy]

I carry 185 gr Golden Sabers basically for the ounce or so of weight savings in a full load of nine rounds.  Balistics aren't that much different though the lighter load shoots a little flatter.  I won't load +P in a scandium frame, it tends to beat the crap out of the light aluminum alloy.  The guns rated for it, I just don't see the point.

[Sponsor]

[jc451911]

Look, all offer good advice, but IMHO, if you pick a round in your chosen caliber( 230gr. Fed HST, for me ) with a good reputation within law enforcement in your area and more importantly, is reliable in your pistol, you will be fine.

I've subscribed to both schools of thought in the past, but have come to the conclusion that accurately placing your shots is much more important than what caliber and bullet style, as long as it is not ball, even the 'legendary .45 FMJ'.

Learn to shoot it well and it won't matter if it is a 115gr. 9mm, or a 230gr. .45, as long as you place your shots well.

Good luck.

j.

[Rastus]

I agree with the shot placement...that advice is king.

I don't know if it is just the weight since it may pass through some pieces parts not transmitting all the energy if it's FMJ.  I think size of hole makes a difference too.  I use Federal's expanding full metal jacket in my 45's...they consistently expand to approx. 0.75" and dump energy, as recommended by some LEO trainers down the road.

I've got to brag on Doubletap too.  I buy their 10MM ammo...which by the way...why not get heavy and fast in a round larger than a 9 and a bit smaller than a 45?  My 10MM defensive round is a 200 grain full power Doubletap with 1,200 to 1,250 fps of muzzle velocity.  Make sure if you use Doubletap in a 10 MM that you dump the normal 18 lb spring many of the 1911 clones use and bump up to that 24 lb spring to protect the frame.

[MikeBjerum]

I go along with jc451911's last comment.  If you are going to put a gun in your self defense plan you must know how to use it and be comfortable with it.  It isn't about how big, how fast or how many, it is about where you put them.  Hey, I'd rather see someone put three .22lr on target than bounce eight 230 gr .45's off the fixtures around the room.

[TAB]

I like heavy bullets...


Just like motors, there is no replacement for displacement.

[twyacht]

I like heavy bullets...


Just like motors, there is no replacement for displacement.

TAB, your avatar is definitely  BIG BLOCK!!!