Ammunition Selection: Heavy and Slow or Light and Fast

[Rastus]

I like heavy bullets...

Just like motors, there is no replacement for displacement.

Kewl saying....I'd like to think we're rubbing off on you.

[TAB]

I built my 1st 460 at 15 for a jet boat... 

if you think shooting is expensive... try owning a true 100 mph boat, been there done that, never again.

[USSA-1]

I would be wary of selecting defensive loads based on velocity.  Velocity is only part of the equation.  Too much velocity can be a bad thing.  Bullets are designed to function at certain velocities to achieve a desired effect.  Too much or too little velocity can impair their performance.  Unfortunately, many manufacturers just jack up the velocities and we, the uneducated consumer think faster equals better.  Not necessarily.  In many cases you are paying a premium for the extra velocity ammunition, not to mention the extra recoil and muzzle blast associated with the increased velocity with no real increase in performance.

The 230 gr., 45 acp, at 850 fps has been putting men in under the Earth for nearly 100 years.  Put simply, it works.  Find a good modern hollow point design at 850-900 fps and put in through a man's chest and you'll have a very effective self defense load without the excess recoil and muzzle blast.

As for which caliber to use?  I usually fall back to this bit of wisdom I picked up many years ago....Bigger holes bleed faster.

USSA-1

[CDR]

The 230 gr., 45 acp, at 850 fps has been putting men in under the Earth for nearly 100 years.  Put simply, it works.  Find a good modern hollow point design at 850-900 fps and put in through a man's chest and you'll have a very effective self defense load without the excess recoil and muzzle blast.



USSA-1

+1...........see signature line.

[mmszbi]

Learn to shoot it well and it won't matter if it is a 115gr. 9mm, or a 230gr. .45, as long as you place your shots well.

That statement just about covers it.  A 22lr will kill just as well as a .45 if placed correctly.  Now, in the real world, I want as much lead hitting my target as possible, and a 230gr 45 will change the mind of a BG quite quickly.....as my CCW instructor told our class many years ago......you keep shooting until the BG no longer feels he is a threat.

I personally carry 185gr Federal Hydro Shoks in my Kimber CDP II 4", with another advantage of CTC grips.

[Sponsor]

[2HOW]

I have always carried big bonded hollow points  preferably Gold Dots , regardless of manufacturer of the round. 230 and 180 gr. But I will as soon as possible switch to the Federal Expanding Full Metal Jacket rounds, superior penetration and expansion with no chance of plugging and barrier penetration superior to any hollow point retaining weight. (no I dont work for Federal). 

[DesertMarine]

Agree with USSA-1 and those who talk about heavy bullets and shot placement.  For years a prevelant theory has been that a slow heavy bullet does a better job than a light fast moving bullet.  Elmer Keith who was instrumental in the development of the 41 mag and maybe the 44 mag always favored a heavy bullet but faster than calibers at that time.  Used to read about hunting the dangerous animals of Africa where a slow heavy bullet was favored over lighter faster bullets due to energy that they hit their target with.   

[ericire12]

As for which caliber to use?  I usually fall back to this bit of wisdom I picked up many years ago....Bigger holes bleed faster.

USSA-1

+1

Might I add, Two holes (entry & exit) bleed twice as fast as one.

[Frisco]

I am a firm believer that any premium ammo from .38 Spl through .45ACP will end a fight with authority IF you put the BB or BB's where they need to go.  I exclude .41 and .44 Magnum from "everyday carry" because in whatever platform you plan to launch it from, recoil will be fierce, horrendous, traumatic, and down right yucky.  That being said...I do have a certain fondness for a 180gr LSWCHP .44Spl cooking along at about 850fps from my old 4" Model 24.  That is a load I also use in my Rossi Big Loop Trapper carbine.  They make GREAT camping guns.

But heck...I always have some sort of Glock handy.  Except for the Glock 18 (see lust in my eyes) I have one or two of each model.  I actually PREFER the 9mm and the .45 as my all time favorites, though I do admit a funky fondness for my Glock 38 in 45GAP as a carry gun.  My wife says it is just because I like to be different.  Yeah...maybe so.

But still...I don't want to get shot with a .22short if I can help it.  It hurts like hell and makes you cuss, and yell, and say bad things about people's mothers.  I know, I have seen me do it.

[fullautovalmet76]

OK. Here's my input (finally  ):
I tend to follow the research of Dr. Martin Fackler, who was a trauma surgeon in the U.S. Army in Vietnam and pioneered research on modern ballistics. I believe he is the creator of the standard by which the FBI uses to judge ballistic qualities of ammunition- the 10% gelatin test.

Note for the lighter/faster crowd: I know Fackler disputed the findings of Sanow and a major controversy raged for many years. This post is not about that and does not seek to reignite it either. I have not read Sanow's work so I can not make any informed comments about his work anyway.

Fackler's basic premise is that heavier bullets at sufficient velocities perform better than lighter, faster bullets in a given caliber. For example, he maintains that 147 gr. 9mm is a better round than a 115 gr 9mm round, though the heavier round has a lower velocity.

I have included a link (http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf) on handgun wounding effectiveness from the FBI, circa 1989. Though the technology and the science regarding ballistics has advanced since then, there are some basic principles outlined in this document that transcend time. Part of the research done by the agent was based upon Fackler's research.

USSA's point about 45 ACP is dead on- bigger holes make them bleed out faster.....I spoke with someone you all would immediately recognize about this issue and he told me that he knows of those "in the know" who use plain old ball ammo for their self defense round. Why? Because it works! They don't worry so much about overpenetration as that they want the round to penetrate enough to do the job....Interesting stuff....

Thanks!