Top tier, second tier, and so on...

[Solus]

I think you're way wrong there, Solus.  Savage is much more accurate than Weatherby.

I own a couple of Savage rifles and have found them to be great value....and accurate...and they have gotten better than the ones I purchased in the 90s.

I've never shot a Weatherby, or even held one, but I've seen them at gun shows and their beauty left me staring.....not willing to touch such a work of art....I hadn't just washed my hands and hadn't a pair of soft white gloves to wear.

I felt comparing my humble Savages to a Weatherby, as I did, was going far enough.

[Solus]

It would be a fun discussion, but we would never agree.
For example, Bafsu and I seem to disagree on the priority of workmanship versus innovation.
Another thing, the OP was about the "Manufacturers", not necessarily just their product, with that in mind we should be considering things like management, customer service, and responsiveness to the desires of the market as well as purely product related items.
Truth is though, few of us give a crap about any of that as long as we are happy with the new blaster. 

Yeah...we know the bottom line is how each of us feels about his weapons....except those 1911 junkies...what are they thinking anyway?  ...and just joking...I like my 1911, but carry a Glock.

But, all that aside, I bet we could come up with a rating system with weightings and enough categories at the various tier levels to achieve a happy consensus....but who is gonna care enough to do all the work?

I'll do it for ammo    lots of ammo.

[Hazcat]

It would be a fun discussion, but we would never agree.
For example, Bafsu and I seem to disagree on the priority of workmanship versus innovation.
Another thing, the OP was about the "Manufacturers", not necessarily just their product, with that in mind we should be considering things like management, customer service, and responsiveness to the desires of the market as well as purely product related items.
Truth is though, few of us give a crap about any of that as long as we are happy with the new blaster. 

AMEN!

[fightingquaker13]

I own a couple of Savage rifles and have found them to be great value....and accurate...and they have gotten better than the ones I purchased in the 90s.

I've never shot a Weatherby, or even held one, but I've seen them at gun shows and their beauty left me staring.....not willing to touch such a work of art....I hadn't just washed my hands and hadn't a pair of soft white gloves to wear.

I felt comparing my humble Savages to a Weatherby, as I did, was going far enough.

I hate to spoil another man's gun lust, but this is for your own good Solus. I owned a Weatherby Mark V. It had a Monte Carlo stock of deeply burled three shades of color walnut, gold trigger and a bluing so deep you could read the paper in it. I traded that sucker for a Ruger M77 MarkII and never looked back. Enough said.
FQ13

[Hazcat]

I own a couple of Savage rifles and have found them to be great value....and accurate...and they have gotten better than the ones I purchased in the 90s.

I've never shot a Weatherby, or even held one, but I've seen them at gun shows and their beauty left me staring.....not willing to touch such a work of art....I hadn't just washed my hands and hadn't a pair of soft white gloves to wear.

I felt comparing my humble Savages to a Weatherby, as I did, was going far enough.

I have shot both.  At a gun range I used to belong to a guy was next to me cursing his rifle.  I had my (then new) Savage 111F 30-06 with a 4x Tasco Pronghorn scope on it.  He kept complaining about his accuracy then noticed I was doing pretty damn well (I was having a 'good' eyes day).  He asked if I would shoot his and see if I could get the size of the groups down.

I shot it and could not get below 2.5 inches at 100 yards.  My Savage was putting them in a quarter.  Drove him crazy.  He spent a BUNCH of cash on the gun and the Swavarski glass and my $500 outfit was destroying him.  He said damn pretty, next time he was buying a Savage!

[Sponsor]

[Solus]

I hate to spoil another man's gun lust, but this is for your own good Solus. I owned a Weatherby Mark V. It had a Monte Carlo stock of deeply burled three shades of color walnut, gold trigger and a bluing so deep you could read the paper in it. I traded that sucker for a Ruger M77 MarkII and never looked back. Enough said.
FQ13

Oh...any lust I had for a Weatherby quickly turned to one based solely on looks. 

After shooting my Savages and even my Olympic Arms Match AR, I realized that an improvement in accuracy, if any improvement was to even be offered, would be so small I'd be paying thousands for each .1" that might be there.

But it was beautiful and carried a mystique.

I must have been drooling over it because the one selling it at the gun show walked up and told me not to even touch it unless I could afford it.

[fightingquaker13]

Oh...any lust I had for a Weatherby quickly turned to one based solely on looks. 

After shooting my Savages and even my Olympic Arms Match AR, I realized that an improvement in accuracy, if any improvement was to even be offered, would be so small I'd be paying thousands for each .1" that might be there.

But it was beautiful and carried a mystique.

I must have been drooling over it because the one selling it at the gun show walked up and told me not to even touch it unless I could afford it.

If you really want one I think you can still get one for "free" or as near as. The Bank of Boulder was, and still might be, offering this deal where if you put some bucks into a zero interest long term CD you got your choice of a Weatherby rifle, shotgun, or Sage rod combo. Given that interest rates on CDs are so low, I'd jump on it if its still there. The Weatherby did shoot well, sub MOA, but I just thought it was so ornate as to be tacky. I like simple in my guns. Its just a personel thing. Nothing wrong with flash if thats what you like. I just got lucky with my Ruger as it is a tack driver that shoots as well or better than the Weatherby. I have heard from other Ruger owners that this is about a one in three chance. Some are great, others just good. You pays your money and takes your chances. I'd have bought a Savage, but they weren't making LH models standard at the time and the gun dealer offered me a straight up trade on the Ruger and a nice piece of glass.
FQ13

[bafsu92]

As an example, I would rate the Kel Tec P3AT higher than the Ruger LCP since, regardless of materials or appearence Ruger simply cloned a proven popular design.

Another example of not looking past the "looks" and actually looking at the design. I'm guessing the clone your implying is the LCP is supposedly a clone of the P3AT? Sure they look a little alike, although that ugly extractor on the P3AT that looks like my 8yo son designed and installed sets them apart instantly. The LCP is a completely different design and the key difference is it works. I would not count on a P3AT to defend myself, I've owned 3 all jamming little pieces of crap. Sure Kel-Tec warranties them well but I got tired of sending them in. I don't have anything against Kel-Tec I've got a Sub-2K and a RFB and think they're both great designs. I also think the P32 is a decent pistol, especially for the price. I've yet to see one of their 380's digest 50 rounds without a hang up though, mine or anyone else I know that owned one. My LCP, before I got rid of it, had 300+rds of mixed ammo, and I mean everything from cheap, import surplus crap to glasers to +p premium ammo with no hicups. The only reason I got rid of it was I never carried it once I got my 357 airlite j-frame.

Kel-Tec is a tier 3 or lower to me, sure they're innovative but when half the stuff they innovate is pure crap that you can't depend on until it's been tweaked 3 or 4 times by them how can you call them a quality manufacturer? Customer service is very important but if you do it right from the beginning, perfect fit and finish and a well thought out design, be it yours or someone elses then customer service isn't that important. I don't know how Ed Brown's customer service is, my Ed Brown Special Forces 1911 is almost 15 years old, it was about 4 years old with nearly 5k through it when I bought it. I've put another 10k easy through it over the last 11 years. It has more bare metal than finish right now but will still shoot 1 mag into 1 ragged hole from 15 yards. I've never had to see how the customer service is since it was done right from the start. I've had 2 malfunctions in all those rounds and they were both magazine related. Sometime in the next few years I plan to send it back in to get it fully checked out and refinished, maybe a new barrel. So far the only thing I've done to it other than cleaning is a new recoil spring a couple years ago. I'vve got friends who have similar experiences with Les Baer and I've got similar stories with STI. I've got Kimber's that have run nearly as well and I've got Kimber's I've sent back.

I'm totally pleased with Kimber's service. I had issues with a pistol that had an external extractor and after 3 trips back they put on a brand new, custom shop tuned internal extractor top end and refinished the frame and sent it back with 3 brand new tuned magazines as well. That's why I own 7 (as of today) Kimber's. I know even if I get a dud I'll get it back better than it should've been to start with.

[1911 Junkie]

Yeah...we know the bottom line is how each of us feels about his weapons....except those 1911 junkies...what are they thinking anyway?  ...and just joking...I like my 1911, but carry a Glock.

Watch it pal!  My 1911 can beat up your glock.  

I don't think you can make the list based solely on the manufacturer.  I think it needs to be based solely on the firearm as one manufacturer may make one gun well but the other could be a total POS (insert Kimber). You can grade the company as a whole but you still need subgroups.

Just a thought. Makes my simple brain hurt.

[tombogan03884]

Bafsu's last post illustrates why we would have such trouble coming up with any break down.
There is to much subjective opinion involved, his experience is that the P3AT sux, mine on the other hand is just the opposite.
The same will hold true for any other category.
Customer service for example, Taurus was excoriated in several past threads for lousy CS, but each of those threads contained posts by people who were quite pleased with the way they were treated and the service they recieved.
Truly classifying hand gun manufacturers is going to ultimately be just as personal as preferences in the guns themselves.