Statistics on Striker Fired guns firing on their own??

[AE3007H1]

Do any of you know if there is any statistical data on the failures of the firing pin saftey device on striker fired guns like the Glock and M&P's?  meaning that the gun fired entirely on its' own with out being stimulated from any thing.  Of coarse this would mean that the firing pin saftey plunger has failed and allowed the firing pin to fire an already chambered round.

I ask because of my 1 year old daughter.  She is now running around and in to EVERYTHING! haha  but the other day she walked up on my left side "I am left handed and carry as such"  and held on to my left leg.  I did not know that my wife had opened the door or I would have already have canted that side away from her.  She walked up and when I looked down to see what was touching me I see MY GUN POINTED AT MY DAUGHTER'S HEAD!  I qucikly turned to negate this problem.  I am always aware of what is down range from my gun, even while quietly tucked into its holster.  It was on my hip in a SERPA II when this happened.  

This got me thinking about conditions that could cause the gun to fire under these circumstances.  The trigger is completley enclosed so the trigger being depressed should not be a problem.  After some thought I began to think about what would the possibility of the gun firing on its own be?  I am well versed in gunsmithing so I know what would have to happen mechanically, I just am curious if it ever HAS happened and if so how often, what were the mitigating factors, etc....??

Ther first thing that I have done to keep this from happening again is had a talk with my wife about what had happened.  We decided that I will continue to wear my gun in the house but from now on we are to verbally communicate better between each other so the one that is not with my daughter at the time will know if she is headed towards us.  (really we talked about it and are aware of what to do to make sure that we both know where my daughter is with this event in mind)

[Big Frank]

I've never heard of one going off by itself but I can see where a catastophic parts failure could lead to it.

[AE3007H1]

Yes, it would just take a spring failure and a bump in the right/wrong direction.

[MikeBjerum]

I would suggest a letter to Glock, or the manufacturer of choice.  They will be honest, because if they tell you it isn't possible and it happens they are on the legal hook.  The response I would expect you to get is that if your gun is in factory condition, no trigger job or other smithing, and you are properly maintaining it you are safe.  

My suggestion is that you take or send your gun to a factory repair center, and express your concerns.  They will give it a thorough going over and do maintenance repairs and updates.  Makes me feel better about safeties!

[twyacht]

It's practically a double action cycle...regardless of striker fired or not.....the firing pin is disengaged, there is not tension on the firing pin, the trigger has to be "cycled" to retract the firing pin...

M&P's, (and Glock), and others,  do not utilize a safety plunger under any tension, Glock calls it their "safe action" trigger....That's why a loaded chamber, is the preferred method of carry...

The internals, as the trigger is pulled, retracts the firing mechanism "loading" the spring and striking the primer at the last part of the trigger cycle.

Your safety concerns are well warranted, as SAFETY is the #1 Rule for carry. I don't know the specific stats, however, "spontaneous" discharges have not come up in my digging.

[Sponsor]

[AE3007H1]

M58,  thank you. I am not worried about my particular weapon, just thinking of statistics.

twyacht:  The firing pin does have load on it once cocked.  If you have a round in the chamber and your slide is locked into battery there IS tension on the firing pin. You are correct in that once the trigger is rotated back the sear does pivot to bring the firing pin back a few thousands more to it's "optimal" release point to ensure a successful primer strike.  There are some primers like say CCI that may be hard enough that a strike from this position (cocked but not depressed by the sear and trigger actuation) would not fire the round.  But most primers on factory ammo are soft enough that they would in fact fire from this type of strike. 

Now with all of that said I could be mistaken in my above stated theories.  I have derived this information by the observation of the distance that the firing pin moves from the sear's movement during a trigger press in Glock and M&P pistols. (it is only a few thou. at best) 

[twyacht]

Although not practiced at anywhere else but a range, field strip a loaded M&P, (as I have), and check the tension on the firing pin.

There is none.

One can field strip a M&P and take the loaded slide off the frame, the trigger disconnect is not part of the firing mechanism unless the trigger is pulled.

I think the trigger disconnect may differ between brands, but I can hammer nails with my M&P without a discharge....

Remember, S&W, and Glock, have beat these pistols into the ground to cover the concern of liability lawyers....

The booger hook off bang switch protocol, is still the best regardless...

[AE3007H1]

Hopefully someone else can off some opinions as well so you and I don't seem as if we are arguing. haha  I do have a M&P as well as a Glock.  What I believe you are forgetting is that when you rack the slide thus cambering a round, when the slide goes forward into battery the sear catches the firing pin lug and pre-loads it as everything locks into battery.  Like I said, the sear break only moves the pin a minute amount further towards the rear.  If you have one of the orange "armor's plates" that will fit into the rear of the slide of a Glock you can see what I am talking about. 

For the sake of not continuing a tennis match I will let this be my last contribution to this discussion.  Maybe a few others can chime in with facts/opinion.  I believe what I am saying to be fact but I am never above being wrong.  It has been a pleasure.

[twyacht]

For the volley, I think we are on the same page, the internal difference is mechanics.

In the new double-action striker-fired pistols, such as a Glock, when the slide is racked the striker is latched back far enough to be clear of the breech face when feeding a round, but not far enough to fire the pistol if released. When you pull the trigger the striker is pulled back farther, then released. Most striker fired pistols could be described as modified double action or a cross between single and double action. Depending on the manufacturer and model, there is usually some amount of precock built into the design to reduce the amount of trigger effort required to complete the cocking action before releasing the striker. In other words the action of the side may leave the striker 20-95% cocked.

While you are technically correct you're missing my point. In general, the more precock built into the design the less work must be done to complete the cocking action and release the striker. Depending on the leverage used in the design that work can either be pull weight or travel, or more often a happy combination of weight and travel. The end result is that it's quite possible to build a reliable striker fired pistol with a buttery smooth 3-1/2lb trigger with a crisp break. You just won't find many like that right out of the box because of liability issues.

Never cease to contribute AE300, and there is nothing wrong with a friendly "tennis match", here at DRTV,...You are correct. I never fail to admit when I learn something new...

Stay safe,

tw

[tombogan03884]

Isn't Ping a Glock armorer ?
Some one like that , or perhaps if you could find an online Armorers manual for either the Glock or M&P would solve the debate over what point the trigger mechanism engages the firing mechanism.
That seems to be the only point you differ on.
But to the OP I have to say I have never heard of either pistol going bang with out a finger contacting the trigger.
Except this: