Why all the hate?

[Solid]

Mag safeties and manual safeties; people love to hate 'em. Come up with all kinds of rationalizations and scenarios where they are bad things to have.

Can you fumble them? You bet! Could they get you killed? Yep. So could your seat belt and air bag.

But the stone cold facts are both are WAAAAAY more likely to save your life than take it. You fumbling w them will most likely make things interesting, not fatal. Somebody else fumbling w it is more likely to save your bacon while you get the edge back.

Illinois State Police used 'em for over 20 yrs. Have documented saves from both, no documented kills. Can't even stack the deck w suspected cases to make 'em look worse, since the number of saves exceeds the total number of officers killed. Local PD used S&Ws for over 20 yrs too, same story.

Even so, both ended up issuing Glocks. The fed's (DOJ/DHS) pistol contracts specify NO to both. Common sense often isn't so common. Heck, took several hundred yrs for the world's armies to get rid of those shiny, bright uniforms on the battlefield...

Why not teach cops to keep their guns rather than implement a poor safety device?

[ismram]

Why not teach cops to keep their guns rather than implement a poor safety device?

Are you trying too tell us that you are so good, that there is no way someone could get ahold of your gun?

[Dougdubya]

Why not teach cops to keep their guns rather than implement a poor safety device?

Because the bad guys train hard to wrestle guns.

Rather the bad guy spends a few seconds trying to figure out why the cop's gun don't work, giving our hero time to:

1) crush his skull with a nightstick
2) tase him
3) shoot him with the backup .38 every cops SHOULD carry.

Or
4) all of the above.

Weapon retention - sometimes if you love something, you should set it free.

[tombogan03884]

Are you trying too tell us that you are so good, that there is no way someone could get ahold of your gun?

I'm not a Cop and in an armed confrontation no one is going to take my weapon. because as soon as they attempt it I will shoot them, That is why if you get TRAINING, you are tought to keep distance between your weapon and the person you may need to use it on and keep it close to your body so that when they make their move all you need to do is pull the trigger. You have had the same sort of question for EVERY answer posted. The fact is if you get PROPER TRAINING a mag safety will make no difference as these situations will be unlikely, if you DO NOT get good training then all the mechanical safeties in the world will not save your ignorant a$$

[MikeO]

People (in and out of uniform) lose their guns for the same reasons they miss their targets when it's for real; "stuff" happens despite all our training to head it off at the pass.

Retention training, security holsters, mag/manual safeties.

Take some, all, or none of that as far as you feel comfortable. If you want to Mexican carry your 1911 w the pinned grip safety and cut off trigger guard off safe, have at it. 

The trend is definitlely away from mag/manual safeties, though the US military appeared to be interested in a manual safety for the indefinitley postponed JCP/CP.

I like both of 'em, though my current choices only have a manual safety (SA 1911 and HK 45C), both carried in a Blackhawk CQC holster w the retention feature.

[Sponsor]

[ismram]

I'm not a Cop and in an armed confrontation no one is going to take my weapon. because as soon as they attempt it I will shoot them, That is why if you get TRAINING, you are tought to keep distance between your weapon and the person you may need to use it on and keep it close to your body so that when they make their move all you need to do is pull the trigger. You have had the same sort of question for EVERY answer posted. The fact is if you get PROPER TRAINING a mag safety will make no difference as these situations will be unlikely, if you DO NOT get good training then all the mechanical safeties in the world will not save your ignorant a$$

WOW! What arrogance! You must truly think your something specail. No one can ever get the drop on me becuse I've had training. Well so have I, but I'm not that naive!

[tombogan03884]

WOW! What arrogance! You must truly think your something specail. No one can ever get the drop on me becuse I've had training. Well so have I, but I'm not that naive!

  I'd be offended if I did not consider YOUR previous posts on this thread. The only safety that REALLY matters is the one between the shooters ears.

[ismram]

  I'd be offended if I did not consider YOUR previous posts on this thread. The only safety that REALLY matters is the one between the shooters ears.

Ok, you got me there. Ouch! I see no one can take your typing fingers away from you either!

[Dougdubya]

No need for fussing, boys.

Everyone has their own ideas of weapon retention.

The fact that we have differing opinions means we've all thought of it, and HAVE A PLAN, be if off-switches/buttons, retention straps, backup tools, or retention stances.

I feel sad for those who don't have a plan, and will end up merely dithering while the mook who disarmed them opens fire.

The smart people here, I don't worry for, whichever plan they opt for.

[Ron J]

Wait a second, Horrible? Worse than a Glock worse than a XD, or a Ruger? I have a BHP and I shoot IDPA with it. I would love to remove the mag safety but I can't. Due to the rules. I admit that the trigger does gets better when you remove the mag safe, but come on horrible? I had a gunsmith do a trigger job on mine without removing the mag safe, and I'll bet it's better than most 1911's.

Yep.  Horrible.  As in really bad.  Crap.  

Not the half of it either.  My (all Belgium) HP would not feed ball ammo much less any factory hollow point load.  As a weapon, it would have made a piss-poor hammer.  

None of that really mattered because before I got it I had planned to send it out to be tuned regardless if had a crap trigger (or not) or couldn't feed itself.  In early 1980 I sent it to Austin Behlert and he did his magic on it.  New trigger, took off the mag safety, installed a low mount & rounded Bomar rear sight, added an extended thumb safety, Wolf springs, ramped, throated and smoothed the action to a sharp 4# break.  Today, my Browning High Power is a work of art that I would bet my life on.  Don't think I would compete with it but if my daughter ever wanted to I would let her.  

Now, you may be thinking ... was it the action/tuning that Behert did on my HP or was it the mag safety removal that improved my Browning?  From what Mr. Behlert told me, the key to the best possible action job on the High Power is to remove the mag safety.  I believe that back then Bill Laughridge also said the same regarding the excellent work he did (and still does) on Browning High Powers.  

Today, there are probably some Browning High Powers out there that have "nice" triggers on them with the mag safety.  Again, back in the late 70's and early 80's one of the steps in performing an action-job was to remove the safety.  Brings up a question that maybe someone could comment on ... would a gunsmith (today) even remove a factory safety on a handgun?  

As to this thread and why the hate, I don't hate mag disconnects.  Given my situation I just don't need them.  What I DO HATE on guns is large print on the slides or barrels.  That and "warnings" really muck up the looks of a gun.