Why all the hate?

[ismram]

Yep.  Horrible.  As in really bad.  Crap.  

Not the half of it either.  My (all Belgium) HP would not feed ball ammo much less any factory hollow point load.  As a weapon, it would have made a piss-poor hammer.  

None of that really mattered because before I got it I had planned to send it out to be tuned regardless if had a crap trigger (or not) or couldn't feed itself.  In early 1980 I sent it to Austin Behlert and he did his magic on it.  New trigger, took off the mag safety, installed a low mount & rounded Bomar rear sight, added an extended thumb safety, Wolf springs, ramped, throated and smoothed the action to a sharp 4# break.  Today, my Browning High Power is a work of art that I would bet my life on.  Don't think I would compete with it but if my daughter ever wanted to I would let her.  

Now, you may be thinking ... was it the action/tuning that Behert did on my HP or was it the mag safety removal that improved my Browning?  From what Mr. Behlert told me, the key to the best possible action job on the High Power is to remove the mag safety.  I believe that back then Bill Laughridge also said the same regarding the excellent work he did (and still does) on Browning High Powers.  

Today, there are probably some Browning High Powers out there that have "nice" triggers on them with the mag safety.  Again, back in the late 70's and early 80's one of the steps in performing an action-job was to remove the safety.  Brings up a question that maybe someone could comment on ... would a gunsmith (today) even remove a factory safety on a handgun?  

As to this thread and why the hate, I don't hate mag disconnects.  Given my situation I just don't need them.  What I DO HATE on guns is large print on the slides or barrels.  That and "warnings" really muck up the looks of a gun.  

I have a newer model BHP. Maybe the older model's trigger's were worse, this wasn't bad out of the box. I had Jim Garthwait do a trigger job on mine. He is really GOOD! Even with the mag safe the trigger is SWEET!!

[Solid]

Because the bad guys train hard to wrestle guns.

Rather the bad guy spends a few seconds trying to figure out why the cop's gun don't work, giving our hero time to:

1) crush his skull with a nightstick
2) tase him
3) shoot him with the backup .38 every cops SHOULD carry.

Or
4) all of the above.

Weapon retention - sometimes if you love something, you should set it free.

It's a two way street, as the assailant may have not released the magazine. Now what is the safety going to stop? Nothing, the cop should have kept his gun.

Often times officers are not trained when it is best to pull a gun or best to pull out their pr-24. Sometimes hand to hand techniques are much better if they are already in such close proximity.

Many departments send you to the academy once and every year you qualify. State Police will often do yearly training to go with that, but if they don't practice afterwards it isn't going to mean squat. I have family in law enforcement, so I am not ignorant on the subject.

[Dougdubya]

It's a two way street, as the assailant may have not released the magazine. Now what is the safety going to stop? Nothing, the cop should have kept his gun.

In a wrestling match for a firearm with a magazine safety, the utilizer, TRAINED with said gun, deactivates the weapon by dumping the mag.  It's amazing how you've never seen a weapon retention situation with more than one person handling the weapon.  Rather than pulling the trigger with the muzzle potentially in an uncontrolled situation and MURDERING a bystander, deactivate the gun and fall back on a secondary tool.

Often times officers are not trained when it is best to pull a gun or best to pull out their pr-24. Sometimes hand to hand techniques are much better if they are already in such close proximity.

Zero argument there.

Many departments send you to the academy once and every year you qualify. State Police will often do yearly training to go with that, but if they don't practice afterwards it isn't going to mean squat. I have family in law enforcement, so I am not ignorant on the subject.

Private citizens or law enforcement officers sent through the Lindell Training program get that taught to them as an option.  One example of a teacher who instructs on proper use of a magazine safety is Massad Ayoob owner and chief instructor of the Lethal Force Institute who has been teaching handgun retention techniques for 30 years, and has records of eight Illinois State Police officers who LIVED because of a magazine disconnect in the first two years of the Model 39 Smith and Wesson's adoption.

But hey, pull the trigger when someone has their hand wrapped around your gun.  Maybe you won't blow your daughter's head off or cripple your wife.  No skin off my personal nose.

[tombogan03884]

Ok, you got me there. Ouch! I see no one can take your typing fingers away from you either!

FinGER, singuler, BUT IT"S SMOKING

No need for fussing, boys.

Everyone has their own ideas of weapon retention.

The fact that we have differing opinions means we've all thought of it, and HAVE A PLAN, be if off-switches/buttons, retention straps, backup tools, or retention stances.

I feel sad for those who don't have a plan, and will end up merely dithering while the mook who disarmed them opens fire.

The smart people here, I don't worry for, whichever plan they opt for.

No big deal, on other threads we're agreeing so it all works out. 

[ismram]

I think everyone on here can agree to disagree on one point or another, on this subject. But I think we can all agree that someone else's hand on your gun is a very bad situation. Use whatever saftey device, training, tool. keys in there eyes, fist, ellbow, foot, knee, batton, teeth, knife, mace, Backup Gun, and the 50 other things that I can't think of right now too get that P.O.S's hand off your weapon.

[Sponsor]

[Dougdubya]

Truly high road (to borrow from another gun forum I like).  sorry for being snarky, Ismram.

[Ron J]

I think everyone on here can agree to disagree on one point or another, on this subject. But I think we can all agree that someone else's hand on your gun is a very bad situation. Use whatever saftey device, training, tool. keys in there eyes, fist, ellbow, foot, knee, batton, teeth, knife, mace, Backup Gun, and the 50 other things that I can't think of right now too get that P.O.S's hand off your weapon.

Amen & well said! 

[ismram]

Truly high road (to borrow from another gun forum I like).  sorry for being snarky, Ismram.

No problem, I just want all us "Good Guy's" to be healthy and safe. So we can continue to fight ALL who want too take our rights away. 

[tombogan03884]

No problem, I just want all us "Good Guy's" to be healthy and safe. So we can continue to fight ALL who want too take our rights away. 

Got that right. 

[gunman1911]

+ 1 for Haz and did you think of all the other volcanoes? What about he trees cut down to publish Time magazine?