Gun zealots put Floridians at risk

[Hazcat]

Published Thursday, April 10, 2008 7:07 PM


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The National Rifle Association owns the Florida Republican Party lock, stock and barrel. That is the only way to explain the Legislature's party-line votes to allow gun owners to secretly take their weapons to work and shopping. (note:  This ONLY applies to CCW holders!) It is an outrageous infringement on private property rights and further puts Floridians at risk in an already dangerous world.

The third time was the charm for the NRA, which uncharacteristically failed to get its way the past two years. This time, the legislation passed with two significant changes. It specifically applies to gun owners with concealed weapons permits, and it shields employers from liability in civil lawsuits. That may have been enough for Republican legislators, but it is no comfort for the business community gearing up to lobby Gov. Charlie Crist to veto the bill.

Property owners ought to be able to determine how they will provide a secure environment for their workers and customers. They should be able to decide for themselves whether they are comfortable with easily accessible guns stored in cars out in their parking lots. If this bill becomes law, property owners won't just be unable to keep guns off their property. They won't even be able to find out how many guns are out there.

The identities of the roughly 487,000 concealed weapons permit holders in Florida already have been removed from the public record. Now this legislation prevents employers from asking employees or customers whether they have guns locked in their cars. They can't search the vehicles. They can't take action against employees or customers who volunteer they have a gun in their car. Employers and employees cannot even mutually agree that the worker will not bring a gun to work. This is a full-scale assault on property rights and the rights of all Floridians to choose to work and shop in a safe environment.

Take this extreme approach by gun zealots to its logical conclusion. If concealed weapons are fine in private parking lots, it won't be long before the argument is made that guns should be allowed inside. Large employers and retail outlets will reconsider whether they should hire armed security to be on equal footing with their workers and customers. Criminals will see parking lots as even more attractive targets because of the likelihood that they will find guns.

Is this the Wild West image Florida wants to promote as it tries to lure tourists and new business?

Crist has indicated he is inclined to go along with his fellow Republicans and sign this offensive bill into law. But the governor is a reasonable man, and he has demonstrated before that he is willing to listen to other views and reconsider his position. He should be as open-minded now and listen to the serious concerns of businesses and Floridians whose constitutional rights and safety would be violated by this NRA power play.

You can leave comments at the link
http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/editorials/article451761.ece

[Hazcat]

BTW this law is ONLY for CCW holders.

[keithm]

I almost hate to say this, but I agree with the property rights angle.  I don't want government telling me what I have to allow on my property.  They reach far enough into my life already. 

Ironically, we used the property rights angle to defeat a carry ban in the state legislature this past session.  A ban on carry in our casinos and racetracks was hidden in a big omnibus funding bill.  I testified in a judiciary committee hearing in favor of an amendment to strike the ban.  My angle was pretty much the standard "why gun control is silly."  But the president of the WVCDL, he had felt out some of the legislators prior to the hearing.  And the property rights angle was what won the day.  This would've been the first ban in state history (to our knowledge) where the legislature reached into private property to prohibit carry.  We fought hard against it because of the legislative precedent that would've been set.

While I see that this is a victory for gun owners, and I'm glad for the citizens of Florida, I generally dislike legislative intrusion into property rights.  Because it is a double-edged sword. 

Imagine the hypothetical, where the legislature MANDATES, under force of law, that you must allow flag-burning in your parking lot on first amendment grounds.  It'd be a lot harder to celebrate the advocacy of property rights infringement in that case, no?

[MikeBjerum]

Aaaaaah Yes ... The property rights angle 

Never thought of that one before 

You would think that Florida was the first State in the Union to allow trained individuals to carry a gun.  This property rights angle is why I like Minnesota's new wording - Businesses and individuals can post their property, and if they know you are carrying they can ask you to leave.  If they ask you to not carry on their property (because they know you are carrying) you must comply by law.  If they just ask you not to carry not knowing if you are or not does not force you to comply (they must know you are carrying when they ask).  The whole basis behind conceal carry in Minnesota is in the word CONCEAL.  In other words "Don't ask don't tell" and everything is just fine 

[Hazcat]

Here we are talking about leaving guns in your car at work and allowing carry in places of PUBLIC business (stores, etc.).

I do not see this a a property rights thing as you have already chosen to open your property to the public.

[Sponsor]

[keithm]

Aaaaaah Yes ... The property rights angle 

Never thought of that one before 

You would think that Florida was the first State in the Union to allow trained individuals to carry a gun.  This property rights angle is why I like Minnesota's new wording - Businesses and individuals can post their property, and if they know you are carrying they can ask you to leave.  If they ask you to not carry on their property (because they know you are carrying) you must comply by law.  If they just ask you not to carry not knowing if you are or not does not force you to comply (they must know you are carrying when they ask).  The whole basis behind conceal carry in Minnesota is in the word CONCEAL.  In other words "Don't ask don't tell" and everything is just fine 

West Virginia's wording is very similar. It's not intrusive into property rights, and it allows the market to operate freely regarding where you do business, where you work, etc...

[keithm]

Here we are talking about leaving guns in your car at work and allowing carry in places of PUBLIC business (stores, etc.).

I do not see this a a property rights thing as you have already chosen to open your property to the public.

I'm no lawyer, but I think the courts have really gone both ways on that definition of private property.  It's like there are three definitions.  There's public property (owned by the state), there's pseudo-public property (owned by private entities but open to the public), and then there's private property (such as your home).  What I have a hard time with, is if I own a business, I own the property.  I pay the utilities.  But the government has the right to step in and say who or what I MUST allow on property that I pay for. 

There are copious examples of intrusive reach like this on other matters, that's for sure.  I believe the ADA is a prime example.  As well as various state laws and local ordinances requiring handicapped access, etc..  I believe those things are probably reasonable and good.  But what I take issue with is the state mandate.  I know we screamed bloody murder when the shoe was on the other foot here.  And I felt we had the moral high ground from which to scream.  If this were turned around upside down, and the legislature were prohibiting, for example, carry on private property for any business which is patronized by children, (It's always for the chilluns, no?) we'd be screaming pretty loud about property rights.

 

[Hazcat]

It is basically the same way here EXCEPT that employers can search you vehicle while park in their lot.  This law really on changes one very small thing.  You can keep a gun locked in your car at work if you have a CCW permit.  

That's it, that's the only change.

[Outlaw]

Why are Floridians, even businesses afraid of CCW holders? 

[Hazcat]

Most aren't, but there are ALWAYS anti-gunners and lefties who keep trying to control our lives.

In fact FL was the leader in CCW and Stand your ground law.