10 things Republicans want

[Pathfinder]

I never intended to "grind" you down Marshal'ette, I like you too much.
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My only point was to answer to the insult I felt when I read what this guy read and what he said about me (because I didn't agree with much of what he said).

You may not intend to grind, but the net effect is the same.

You remind me of the site pests on Lucianne who lurk and make snippy little comments and then lurk some more. Annoying doesn't begin to cover it. And if you're insulted, learn to deal with it without lashing out around you - the world does not owe you anything, and certainly not an explanation for your feeling insulted.

As for your "points" in the earlier email, they were hard to read, they were that far off. Let me address just a single one, #4.

If you don't honestly believe, as Ron Paul apparently does not believe, that this is a world war, then both of you need to re-study your history. Or, forget studying history, just look at the recent news - bombings in Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Bali, et al. School take-overs and bombings in Russia and atrocities in Chechnya. Assaults on government officials in Afghanistan, more bombings in Argentina. The attempted bombing of LAX on 1/1/2002. The World Trade Center in 1993 - or is that too much history? Oh yeah, and the coordinated attack on NYC and Washington on 9/11/01. Not a world war? Get a grip, man, what do you think it is?

This so-called "religion" has been at war with the western civilizations almost since its founding, so it is not just because the USA is so dominant today. Were we not here, were the US not even started, the Muslims would still be attacking western civilization as it always has. It is the nature of that "religion" to attack in any way it can to achieve its own domination, the world caliphate. And if you don't agree, well, just do nothing and watch what they do next.

BTW, while I believe this is an unconventional world war, I also believe the gummint - as it usually does - has totally effed the response up, creating yet another giant bureaucratic "War on ___________" (fill in the blanks) to assume greater control over our lives and freedoms.

[Teresa Heilevang]

Cogz..I really didn't take anything that you said as "grinding away " at me. And I didn't take it personally. I try not to look at disagreeing as 'personal'.
 You and I don't see eye to eye on some things and that's  okay. It's the wonderful difference in people that keeps the world from being boring.
We may not be in the same pasture.. but I think we are damned sure on the same side of the fence.   Hope so anyway.....
I figure that in any post there are going to be disagreements. and within those disagreements I always learn something.
 Sometimes it's something I keep with me..and sometimes it's not. But as long as everyone can agree to disagree I think the conversations are healthy.
Being kinda only one of the few females in here that posts, in a room full of men.. I have to learn to have a tough skin if I am going to try to mix in. I love to hunt and have, for most of my life, and I can hold my own when it comes to talking hunting and fishing..
( had to learn early as I was the only female around here that hunted) and even though I own and use lots of guns.. I can't really talk "gun talk" as in calibers and kinds and bullets etc... so I make a half assed feeble attempt at talking politics and other general issues that are offered as choices in this forum.
And I am not the brightest crayon in the box sometimes on these issues either.. 
 I appreciate all of you guys gathering me in the circle sometimes... so to speak.... That's a special feeling.
Believe me.. if I feel that anyone has hammered at me unduly.. I will be the first one to speak up.
I am the "Queen" of the office of Down Range.. and if I can keep Marshal in line.. I can crack the whip on all you other fellers if I have to. 

[tumblebug]

THANK GOD SOME SANITY.            Lurking Again.

[Cogz]

Now that I am satisfied that I am not offending anyone, I will try my best to discuss the opinion you stated...

Pathfinder, what is a world war in your eyes?

Could you give examples of how Islam has been at war with Western civilizations since its founding, and while you are at it, please give me some basis for your calling of Islam a "so-called 'religion'" that shows me how Christianity or Judaism is an 'actual' religion.

Were we not here, were the US not even started, the Muslims would still be attacking western civilization as it always has.

'The Muslims' huh?  Which Muslims?  All Muslims?  Any attempt to categorize and simplify a diverse group of people only leads to misunderstandings at best, and all the worst of racism in its extreme.  And blacks are violent and dumb and lazy and if they don't want to be here we should just send them back to Africa. (an example of simplification of a diverse group that borders on racism but IS accurate on a small subset of that race - as it would be accurate with any)

creating yet another giant bureaucratic "War on ___________" (fill in the blanks) to assume greater control over our lives and freedoms.

THIS I agree on.

[Hazcat]

Hay Cogz,

Are you a lawyer?  I say the sky is blue or do you want to go into the minutia of refracting light waves?

Fact is the Muslim faith is built on violence.  The Muslims have been attacking any and all not of their faith since its inception.  What Muslims?  Honestly, I don't care as the "good" Muslims have done damn all to stop the violence or even denounce it!

Now, GIVE IT (and the rest of us) A REST!  This is a gun blog.

[Sponsor]

[Cogz]

This is a Fred Thompson sub-forum that has items of political nature posted in it.  It is part of a larger gun forum.  I am participating in a discussion about an item posted on that sub forum.  That I disagree with many here is the item of contention, not that items of political nature are discussed.

You say that its a fact that the Muslim faith is built on violence.  Many people form this opinion based on what others tell them not because they read, research and understand.  I am here telling you that the world is a complex place, and the rationalities that lead civilizations to war (and violence) have much more to do with land, power, and money than any ideological or religious bent.  I have formed this opinion through actual research which I have shared on posts throughout this forum.  You and all others can keep saying whatever you want, but if I disagree I am going to back up my opinions with what I think is rational thought.  (hey, maybe its not 100% all the time but I try...)

Btw - (to) Marshall'ette, to boggle your mind, I delete nearly 1/2 of all the stuff I write here before it ever gets posted.  I try not to post angry - it clouds your logic.  There are emails that I write that never get sent, but unless I write them I will stew over an idea for days.

Anyhow...
To me the nature of being a TRUE patriot is the willingness to confront conventional thinking, to challenge authority.  To THINK for yourselves.  And just like the concept that if we don't exercise our rights to bear arms we will likely loose it - I choose to exercise my right to free speech.  Even if it ticks you off.

And here is an offer.  Being that this isn't a public forum - if Marshall'ette or her husband asks me not to post here anymore I will delete my account and move on.  I respect the rights of the forum owner to control what goes on here.

[jaybet]

Hi everybody! Don't worry, be happy!

Seriously... just like most of us who will admit it, many of the major religions and countries and PEOPLES have had periods or done things of which they are not proud, and during which impulses or fringe groups have hijacked the boat. Look at the US, for example. Many times the only voices that get press are the slimy-est of the liberals or the wingnut conservatives, and when they do they often give the rest of the group a bad name.

There are a_ _holes in every crowd, and they usually end up making the most noise or the biggest mess. Any discussion of their doings naturally brings in the lack of corrective action on the part of their group.

I have to agree with Cogz that this is America, and that if we're so all fired protective of the right to bear, we should be equally as protective of the right to speak freely. Having said that, Cogz's penchant for picking nits reminds me of the guy at the bar-b-que who just won't shut up about something and you end up just trying to get away because the discussion requires too much of your attention. (Said in a friendly spirit, Cogz)

Bottom line is, Cogz has every right to speak (write) freely and we should all respect that. If you take the bait, though, don't complain about the hook.
Now that I have pronounced it so, we can move on, although I'm not the Pope. Oh, wait a minute, there were those scandals....and the Inquisition....

[Teresa Heilevang]

 although I'm not the Pope. Oh, wait a minute, there were those scandals....and the Inquisition....

Does this mean I am not Mother Teresa........
Dang and all this time............

I agree with you Jay... Well said.

[TexasAggie01]

Could you give examples of how Islam has been at war with Western civilizations since its founding,

Cogz, I'll jump in here. Having started the Koran, and having read quite a bit on the theology of Islam, I'll venture here. From its inception in the 7th century AD, Islam has been at war with the West and the East.

Examples: from 621 AD to his death in 632, Mohamed made war upon the neighboring Arab and Bedouin tribes the area now known as Saudi Arabia. He eventually conquered Mecca and Medina.

Upon his death, from the 630s to the 660s, the Patriarchal Caliphate pushed the boundaries of the Islamic world to Egypt, portions of modern day Turkey, and portions of modern Iran and Afghanistan.

From 660s to 750ish, the Umayad Caliphate pushed in to Morocco, Spain, and further into modern day Iran. The battle of Tours and the subsequent Reconquista by the Spanish helped stem the tide of invasion in the West.

In the eastern Mediterranean, the Byzantines fought the Muslims, both the Islamic Arab tribes and the Islamic Turks/Ottoman Empires, until the Byzantine capital was destroyed in 1453. The Ottomans made the Eastern Europeans they subjugated either convert to Islam or pay a tax. Eventually, this tax came to be required in the form of their male children, many of whom formed the Janissaries, the elite infantry of the Ottoman Empire.

The Turks even besieged Vienna in the 1700s, but were repulsed by the timely arrival of the Polish King Jan Sobieski and his winged hussars.

From the late 18th century to today, the Islamic world, or ummah, has been in marked decline, in terms of relative wealth and power, and as such its ability to wage war upon non-Muslims has been limited.

However, the Islamic of government of the Sudan has killed many thousands of Christian or animist Sudanese to this day. Even now, in the Middle East, Christians, and the other non-Muslims are treated poorly, paying the dhimmi tax and being forced to follow humiliating regulations.

Oh, and the the areas the Muslims conquered, from the tip of North Africa to the Turkish peninsula, was Christan. Most either converted or died, and the Zoroastrians of the Sassinid Empire did the same. So, we have a faith that makes war on its neighbors when it can, and is in fact commanded to in his holy book and by its most venerated prophet to do so. This doesn't even touch on the Crusades or the Islamic advance into India, nor does it examine the Barbary Pirates or modern day Islamic terrorism, which dates back to around the 1920s

So, to be fair, Islam has and does make war upon Western civilization, as well as Eastern and African. Its holy book so commands, and the "majority of peaceful Muslims" make barely a peep against terrorism. Or have there been mass protests against Hamas, Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, the Moro Islamic Liberation Front, and the Islamic Brotherhood that the world media missed?

The problem is the simple fact that Islam has a holy book that says subjugate the infidel, and almost no thelogical opposition to this stance.To say it doesn't is to disregard the very basis of the Islamic faith, the Koran, and its interpretation, the hadith.

[Hazcat]

Thank you RecoveringGTer,

Cogz, for all his study of the subject, seems to have missed the historical facts of the Muslim religion.

I get tired of reading and talking to people that make excuses for their actions but somehow fail to know the history and it gets old teaching them what they should have known if they truly had read up on the subject.