B R E X I T - - - What are your opinions on this matter?

[Solus]

Have you been living under a rock for the last 7 years ?
Yes, we do need to win. And if you saw what happened with the Tea party you would understand, THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT WHAT YOU THINK.
Do you know anyone who didn't oppose Obamacare ? They passed it anyway though, didn't they.

I agree, Tom.  Neither of the 2 established parties give a shit what we want.....  So, tell me, exactly how do you expect to win anything by continuing to vote for them?  Holding your nose has no effect...really.

The only way to get a change (withing the election system) is to vote for a 3rd party and with enough votes hurt one or both of the Big Two.

[tombogan03884]

The point is to keep the Democrats out.

[Timothy]

The point is to keep the Democrats out.

Yup!

Hell, even I came around to Trumplestiltskin! 

[vincewarde]

Essentially, what the UK has done is to say that they do not want to be part of the United States of Europe.  Their culture and nation is different from other EU nations and they do not like being ruled from Brussels.

Now, the situation here in the US........

This nation is more divided than at any time since the Civil War and in many ways, more divided than ever.  The Civil War was triggered by one issue: Slavery.  Yes, I know that it was about state's rights - but in this case it was about the right of states to own slaves.

Today, the issue is that the federal government wants to ignore both the founding principles and the plain reading of the Constitution.  The "blue" states are rapidly infringing upon many of our civil rights and the federal government will undoubtedly try to do this same.

Consider California, my native state from which I reluctantly fled one year ago.  As far as California politicians are concerned, the 2nd Amendment does not exist.  The number of oppressive and unconstitutional bills that land on Gov. Jerry Brown's desk is stunning.  He vetoes the worst of them - his replacement will sign all of them.

However, guns are not the only issue.  Religious freedom is under attack as well.  A bill is likely to pass this session that will forbid instructors at religious colleges and universities from discussing religion unless that is the specific subject of the class.  Academic freedom?  Not for the religious!  Let that sink in for a moment.  This bill would forbid an instructor at a Catholic school from discussing the role of the church in social work in a class on sociology.  Students frequently choose to attend religiously affiliated schools in order to learn how their faith relates to their chosen field.  This bill forbids that.  When they finish doing this, they will add more restrictions.....

The above is but one example.  Know this, if Hillary wins and packs SCOTUS, these kind of bills (and executive orders) will be pushed nationally.

So, how would people in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Georgia and Idaho react to the federal government shoving this down their throats?  How would they react to an order to turn in their guns given at the same time as their religious freedom is under attack?  I know how my new home state would react - and I am confident that my state would not be alone.  Best case scenario would be a peaceful parting of ways.  I do not like to think about the worst case scenario.

So, this fall get out and vote for Trump.  Hold your nose if you have to, but vote for him.  Hillary must be stopped.  Our entire future depends upon it.

[Rastus]

Our focus here, mostly due to commonality, is about the highest level of political office.  And I agree that Trump will provide a respite instead of loss or rights and human dignity we will suffer if Hillary comes into office.

However, this can't be fixed from the top down.  It has to be fixed from the bottom up.  We need to focus on fixing our own backyard...the field down the road will then take care of itself.

If it can't be fixed...if we have passed the point where ruin cannot be avoided, then leaving is an academic option.  In the War Between The States there were geographic battle lines.  In our reality there is little geographic difference except between urban and rural areas.  Red state, blue state, it's a matter of degrees.

I doubt an attempt at "divorce" now would end any better than it did in the 1860's.  In fact, I think it would look a lot like Kosovo. 

But if it can be fixed it lies on all of our shoulders to work to fix it and not to bemoan a candidate or candidates who we expect to do our work for us.  We must be politically active. 

If we can't fix it we need to prepare ourselves and our children to live through enslavement.  It may be many generations before the yoke of suffering and oppression we seem poised to receive may be thrown off.

[Sponsor]

[PegLeg45]

Essentially, what the UK has done is to say that they do not want to be part of the United States of Europe.  Their culture and nation is different from other EU nations and they do not like being ruled from Brussels.

Now, the situation here in the US........

This nation is more divided than at any time since the Civil War and in many ways, more divided than ever.  The Civil War was triggered by one issue: Slavery.  Yes, I know that it was about state's rights - but in this case it was about the right of states to own slaves.

Today, the issue is that the federal government wants to ignore both the founding principles and the plain reading of the Constitution.  The "blue" states are rapidly infringing upon many of our civil rights and the federal government will undoubtedly try to do this same.

Consider California, my native state from which I reluctantly fled one year ago.  As far as California politicians are concerned, the 2nd Amendment does not exist.  The number of oppressive and unconstitutional bills that land on Gov. Jerry Brown's desk is stunning.  He vetoes the worst of them - his replacement will sign all of them.

However, guns are not the only issue.  Religious freedom is under attack as well.  A bill is likely to pass this session that will forbid instructors at religious colleges and universities from discussing religion unless that is the specific subject of the class.  Academic freedom?  Not for the religious!  Let that sink in for a moment.  This bill would forbid an instructor at a Catholic school from discussing the role of the church in social work in a class on sociology.  Students frequently choose to attend religiously affiliated schools in order to learn how their faith relates to their chosen field.  This bill forbids that.  When they finish doing this, they will add more restrictions.....

The above is but one example.  Know this, if Hillary wins and packs SCOTUS, these kind of bills (and executive orders) will be pushed nationally.

So, how would people in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Georgia and Idaho react to the federal government shoving this down their throats?  How would they react to an order to turn in their guns given at the same time as their religious freedom is under attack?  I know how my new home state would react - and I am confident that my state would not be alone.  Best case scenario would be a peaceful parting of ways.  I do not like to think about the worst case scenario.

So, this fall get out and vote for Trump.  Hold your nose if you have to, but vote for him.  Hillary must be stopped.  Our entire future depends upon it.

+1 on that, Vince.



There's not enough folks who know, or care, about the impact this election will have on SCotUS.



I saw a statement today... this is not worded exactly, but something to the effect:
It's not about the facts that Hillary Clinton is a liar, cheat, traitor etc....everyone knows that....It's about the fact that so many people know it, and yet they still support her.


Trump is a tourniquet.
I don't know if he can mend the wounds (that will take too much time), but maybe he can stop the bleeding.