This is a branch off from a thread started in the Fred Thompson section. I'll start with a quick recap, and see where it goes.
To recap the discussion from another sub-forum, with some intro from Cogz:
[W]hat is the overall question we are discussing? Is it that Islam is or is not a religion of violence, or is it that the current threat we face is because they seek world domination?
My stance is that currently, due to there not being any real "liberalizing" trend or prominent group in Islam to counteract jihad ideology, there isn't really a separation between the two issues. Yes there, are a few brave individuals who say Islam should not be spread by sword and fire, but their view does not seem to be held in high esteem by the Islamic street. Witness the sheer number of Muslim terrorist attacks compared to any other group v. the outcry and from whence the outcry originates.
And, of course this is not to denigrate all Muslims, just the ones who believe in spreading Islam by fire and sword, and enlarging the house of Islam by subjugating us dhimmis, and those who abet them, Muslim or not.
Cogz, I'll jump in here. Having started the Koran, and having read quite a bit on the theology of Islam, I'll venture here. From its inception in the 7th century AD, Islam has been at war with the West and the East.
Examples: from 621 AD to his death in 632, Mohamed made war upon the neighboring Arab and Bedouin tribes the area now known as Saudi Arabia. He eventually conquered Mecca and Medina.
Upon his death, from the 630s to the 660s, the Patriarchal Caliphate pushed the boundaries of the Islamic world to Egypt, portions of modern day Turkey, and portions of modern Iran and Afghanistan.
From 660s to 750ish, the Umayad Caliphate pushed in to Morocco, Spain, and further into modern day Iran. The battle of Tours and the subsequent Reconquista by the Spanish helped stem the tide of invasion in the West.
In the eastern Mediterranean, the Byzantines fought the Muslims, both the Islamic Arab tribes and the Islamic Turks/Ottoman Empires, until the Byzantine capital was destroyed in 1453. The Ottomans made the Eastern Europeans they subjugated either convert to Islam or pay a tax. Eventually, this tax came to be required in the form of their male children, many of whom formed the Janissaries, the elite infantry of the Ottoman Empire.
The Turks even besieged Vienna in the 1700s, but were repulsed by the timely arrival of the Polish King Jan Sobieski and his winged hussars.
From the late 18th century to today, the Islamic world, or ummah, has been in marked decline, in terms of relative wealth and power, and as such its ability to wage war upon non-Muslims has been limited.
However, the Islamic of government of the Sudan has killed many thousands of Christian or animist Sudanese to this day. Even now, in the Middle East, Christians, and the other non-Muslims are treated poorly, paying the dhimmi tax and being forced to follow humiliating regulations.
Oh, and the the areas the Muslims conquered, from the tip of North Africa to the Turkish peninsula, was Christan. Most either converted or died, and the Zoroastrians of the Sassinid Empire did the same. So, we have a faith that makes war on its neighbors when it can, and is in fact commanded to in his holy book and by its most venerated prophet to do so. This doesn't even touch on the Crusades or the Islamic advance into India, nor does it examine the Barbary Pirates or modern day Islamic terrorism, which dates back to around the 1920s
So, to be fair, Islam has made war, and and a significant minority, with the apparent silence of the majority, does make war upon Western civilization, as well as Eastern and African. Its holy book so commands, and the "majority of peaceful Muslims" make barely a peep against terrorism. Or have there been mass protests against Hamas, Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, the Moro Islamic Liberation Front, and the Islamic Brotherhood that the world media missed?
The problem is the simple fact that Islam has a holy book that says subjugate the infidel, and almost no thelogical opposition to this stance.To say it doesn't is to disregard the very basis of the Islamic faith, the Koran, and its interpretation, the hadith.
Note: Islamic Brotherhood should Muslim Brotherhood. My apologies.
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