Author Topic: What's the backup plan?  (Read 20771 times)

tombogan03884

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Re: What's the backup plan?
« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2016, 01:27:53 PM »
Where does this "democratic" Republic crap come from ?
If you don't even understand what type of government the founders tried to establish you are not well enough informed for me to waste my time on.

Solus

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Re: What's the backup plan?
« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2016, 01:59:16 PM »
But you said to do what they are doing, and the democracy thing is what they do.  They take polls and tell the highest number of people exactly what they want, and then they buy their office that way.

Let's say we exercise the democratic part of democratic republic, and we use the same tactics as the liberals:  We GET loud and proud, stay in the face of the media and elected officials, and we state facts (this is a departure from them, because I mean real facts instead of twisted truths that lie).

My elected officials hear from me on items I see as important, they respond with more than a canned letter, at least the conservative side does, they expect to hear from me from time to time, and a couple have even called me for my take or answers to questions.  How many fighting the fight can say that?  By the way, I was thanked and held for more information by a Democrat Chair of a tax committee one evening.  The reason was that I treated her and the committee with respect, I stated facts without name calling or drawing threatening lines in the sand, and I framed my point in how it harmed everyone of all races, ages, genders and other affiliations.

You do good work m58.  Your goal is to convince them to at least consider your facts, not to ridicule and berate them for not agreeing with you.  You will gain no ground if you start with them on the defensive.
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
—Patrick Henry

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
— Daniel Webster

Solus

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Re: What's the backup plan?
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2016, 02:03:03 PM »
Where does this "democratic" Republic crap come from ?
If you don't even understand what type of government the founders tried to establish you are not well enough informed for me to waste my time on.

You are only right  not wrong  (;D ;D), Tom.  Democratic Republic...Democratic anything...is a critical mis-statement of our form of government.

But you do  have a knack of putting folks on the defensive.
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
—Patrick Henry

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
— Daniel Webster

tombogan03884

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Re: What's the backup plan?
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2016, 02:21:02 PM »
;D. It's a gift.

MikeBjerum

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Re: What's the backup plan?
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2016, 05:41:24 PM »
Tom,

The democratic comes from the part of how we choose our leaders.  If we leave that out we forget that the individual holds the ultimate power.

By the way, yours is not a gift, it is a disease!  Because I have managed to not get kicked off or suspended from any social media sight I will keep that record by not expressing myself on your tactics, but you are welcome to come visit, and I will.
If I appear taller than other men it is because I am standing on the shoulders of others.

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Re: What's the backup plan?
« Reply #45 on: Today at 09:03:03 AM »

Rastus

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Re: What's the backup plan?
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2016, 08:51:58 PM »

Do you realize thatte wole thin came down to te British ovt wanted to tax the colonies to recover some o the expense of protecting them from the French, and Indians.

I think it was a little more than that.


Declaration of Independence


IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.


He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
 He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
 He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
 He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
 He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
 He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
 He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
 He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
 He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
 He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
 He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
 He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
 He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
 For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
 For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
 For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
 For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
 For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
 For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
 For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
 For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
 For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
 He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
 He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
 He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
 He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
 He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
 
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
-William Pitt, British Prime-Minister (1759-1806)
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tombogan03884

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Re: What's the backup plan?
« Reply #46 on: April 22, 2016, 05:56:48 AM »
Rastus, What do you think LEAD to the things listed in the Declaration ?
The British didn't just wake up one morning and say "Gee, after 140 years I think I'll piss off our biggest colony."
The root cause was that "America" was governed through the Colonial Office (being a colony) therefore it was not represented in Parliment.
That whole "taxation with out representation thing, sound familiar ?
Parliment was trying to pay their debts from the 7 years war (aka French and Indian war)
The alternative would have been to simply allow colonies to be represented the way we do Porto Ric but that would have lead to a parliment full of Hindu's, Muslims, Kenyan's and other primitive races.

Rastus

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Re: What's the backup plan?
« Reply #47 on: April 22, 2016, 06:48:11 AM »
Well, I'm going to say the root cause was breaking agreement they made which made it possible for them to be taxed without representation but in abrogation of charters, contracts, laws, etc.  That was where I was at.  If they had lived by the agreements in place there would not have been the much increased taxation...but I'd have to check and see if a portion of the increased taxes were addressed by agreements...and I don't have time for that.

And besides, what do we have in Congress right now?  Mostly lawyers.  So I wonder why you have to jump out in front and slight the primitives?  Gee must you dis them when we all know that lawyers run amuck screwing up and screwing things from left to right and top to bottom?  Have you not a heart for lesser cultures?  They could bring in valuable concepts and ideas like.....
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
-William Pitt, British Prime-Minister (1759-1806)
                                                                                                                               Avoid subjugation, join the NRA!

tombogan03884

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Re: What's the backup plan?
« Reply #48 on: April 22, 2016, 07:45:42 AM »
Because the 3rd worlders are a bunch of incompetent screw ups.

Rastus

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Re: What's the backup plan?
« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2016, 09:46:06 PM »
I'm still thinking about the valuable concepts and ideas....I'll get there....hang on.  Give me some more time...Hmmm????
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
-William Pitt, British Prime-Minister (1759-1806)
                                                                                                                               Avoid subjugation, join the NRA!

 

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