"Should" versus "Could"

[tombogan03884]

In my current situation, (single no kids at home) I would be more likely to use discretion or as MB put it, take a calculated risk.
As I understand it the guy in Colo. had a wife and at least one child in the house, BG already had his arm through the window reaching for the lock, Had ignored warnings about Cops AND gun. Under those circumstances I think I would have shot as well. You have to be alive to regret past actions, chalk outlines regret nothing.
Some one else said hindsight is always 20/20, and we are considering this quietly in front of our computers. Would we come to the same conclusion when it's choose now, with BG at the door yelling,  wife screaming, and adrenaline pumping ?

[Rob Pincus]

Tom, and others,

Again, this isn't about Monday Morning Dissection of the incident in question.... We're talking about the concept of preparation ahead of time to deal with the fear/circumstances and really analyze the situation in the context of NEEDING to shoot, as opposed to "The Law Now Says I CAN Shoot"....

****

Weads,

As far as:

What do you think of Massad Ayoob's theories on home defense?

I don't want to jump into that until the question is more clearly expressed.... Mas has been writing/speaking/teaching on defensive issues for a long time..... if you have a specific point of his, I'd gladly address it.

In your post, you mentioned that you opened the door in a situation where you also felt like it was important to show your firearm. My advice in that type of situation is that if you don't need to open the door, don't do it. There is no sound tactical reason to open the door and expose yourself to danger. As we demonstrated on TBD, you can talk to the person through the door or window. When you leave your room for no reason (securing other family members, etc), when you open the door, when you go outside your home or in any other way "move forward" into more danger, you are inviting an otherwise unnecessary use of force. Through your own actions, you can create a "justified" situation.....

-RJP

[PoorSoulInJersey]

Tom, and others,

Again, this isn't about Monday Morning Dissection of the incident in question.... We're talking about the concept of preparation ahead of time to deal with the fear/circumstances and really analyze the situation in the context of NEEDING to shoot, as opposed to "The Law Now Says I CAN Shoot"....

Rob, let me make sure I'm understanding the question right:
We've all prepared tactically. You want to know how we've prepared mentally for how we would analyze the situation and decide whether or not to shoot?

[2HOW]

Tom, and others,

Again, this isn't about Monday Morning Dissection of the incident in question.... We're talking about the concept of preparation ahead of time to deal with the fear/circumstances and really analyze the situation in the context of NEEDING to shoot, as opposed to "The Law Now Says I CAN Shoot"....]
  My point is when you have a person who is obviously drunk pounding on your doors and windows making lots of noise, reason says he is not there to do you harm, he is confused. That being said all caution should be taken but , shooting before determining a lethal threat is WRONG.

[tombogan03884]

My point is when you have a person who is obviously drunk pounding on your doors and windows making lots of noise, reason says he is not there to do you harm, he is confused. That being said all caution should be taken but , shooting before determining a lethal threat is WRONG.

Drunks are unpredictable, I would agree with you if you said GENUINE threat.  No one in their right mind would risk being beat to death just because "He was drunk and confused"

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[PoorSoulInJersey]

My point is when you have a person who is obviously drunk pounding on your doors and windows making lots of noise, reason says he is not there to do you harm, he is confused. That being said all caution should be taken but , shooting before determining a lethal threat is WRONG.

Isn't that one of the most basic safety rules, "Be sure of your target and what's beyond?"

It's hard for me to imagine a justification for shooting someone who is outside your home, just on your property, and not shooting (or preparing to shoot) through the windows.

If you've called the police, there is no reason to open the door and expose yourself to a potential threat, even if he did break your garden gnomes. Like any safe room situation, it's best to stay put and not go looking for trouble and force a situation that may not have existed if you sat tight.

[ericire12]

Drunks are unpredictable[/color], I would agree with you if you said GENUINE threat.  No one in their right mind would risk being beat to death just because "He was drunk and confused"

Correct.

Take Bane's situation for example.....

1st There is no guarantee that this guy is really drunk or just using a ploy to get you to open the door (similar to the "my car broke down" routine).

2nd If the guy is drunk or high, there is no way of knowing that he is not so drunk or high that he is going to be able to comprehend that you have a gun and are willing to defend yourself..... or in Bane's case, that he was not so drunk or high that he would be able to understand that he really was not at his girlfriends house or that Bane really was not her new boyfriend whom he would want to fight.

[Michael Janich]

I'd pretty much agree with all of this, maybe adding that if I heard someone on the other side of the door, I might very loudly state my intent if they enter and it would be a big plus to have a police dispatcher on the line to overhear that.

You may want to add a good bright flashlight to that emergency pacj in your bedroom.

If you note the phrasing we had our role player use in episodes 1 and 2, we included specific mention of the phrases "I have a gun. You're in my house. I've called the police." If someone is pounding on your bedroom door and hears those phrases (which would also be recorded on the 911 tape) the "terms of your relationship" are pretty clear...

Stay safe,

Mike

[tombogan03884]

Correct.

Take Bane's situation for example.....

1st There is no guarantee that this guy is really drunk or just using a ploy to get you to open the door (similar to the "my car broke down" routine).

2nd If the guy is drunk or high, there is no way of knowing that he is not so drunk or high that he is going to be able to comprehend that you have a gun and are willing to defend yourself..... or in Bane's case, that he was not so drunk or high that he would be able to understand that he really was not at his girlfriends house or that Bane really was not her new boyfriend whom he would want to fight.

If he is that messed up and has gotten into my Apt He's probably going to get shot. If he lifts a hand he WILL get shot.

[ericire12]

If you note the phrasing we had our role player use in episodes 1 and 2, we included specific mention of the phrases "I have a gun. You're in my house. I've called the police." If someone is pounding on your bedroom door and hears those phrases (which would also be recorded on the 911 tape) the "terms of your relationship" are pretty clear...

Stay safe,

Mike

I like that.