What shot size for home defense?

[azshooter270]

What shot size is recommended for in-home defense?  The max shot distance is likely 40ft, and closest about 10ft.  And I'm thinking shotgun so as to minimize penetration past the walls.  Maybe large birdshot, say #4's?, cause at shorter ranges it's basically a slug anyhow, and still likely ugly at the furthest distance.

What do you say?

[tombogan03884]

 I'm using #6 but that's because it's what my local shop had cheap at the time 7 1/2 will give less chance of going through walls, I would not go heavier than #4 if you live in a suburban area.

[fightingquaker13]

This is an age old debate, but I err on the side of conservatism here. The bottom line is that anything that will reliably penetrate to a BG's vitals will punch through drywall, whether it be rifle, pistol or shot gun. You don't say what gauge shotgun you use so I will assume 12. Following Mas Ayoob I would say go with #4 buck, reduced recoil. Understand it will shoot a tight group, about 2" at 12 feet so you need to aim, but has enough penetration and mass to do the job. Bird shot does not. Don't beleive me. Go to www.theboxotruth.com and follow the various penetration tests of drywall, water jugs etc. The author prefers 00 buck, I scale back to #4 buck as it is likely to penetrate BUT has enough ummph to do the job. Understand that with reduced recoil at across the living room distance with a high quality buffered load, there should be no excuse to miss and have fliers as you're shooting 1 1/2 to 3 inch groups and if you aim these will be absorbed by the BG. Birdshot just won't do it. It only penetrates through about an inch of flesh. Not enough to hit anything vital, and has too little mass to provide knock down power.You get a pissed off bad guy and no stopping the fight (just ask Dick Cheney ). USE BUCK SHOT!!!! To quote the Box O' Truth, save the bird shot for little birds. Its your call, but I will not trust my life to birdshot, ever, and I've been running shotguns for better than 30 years.
FQ13

[MikeBjerum]

I load up with trap loads (7 1/2 or 8 shot low base).  I have cases of the stuff around, it is going to give minimal penetration on walls, if you have furniture it will not penetrate that, but it will do serious damage anywhere within the house.

I've killed everything from a coyote down out to 20 yards on the yard, so I'm not concerned about enough hit for a person inside the house.

I do have some larger shot in high base (3" shells) in holders with the gun if I need it.  The gun is 8+1, and I keep one in the chamber, but only six in the magazine.  This way I can pump a couple "big dudes" in if I need before the SHTF.  I also have some slugs with the gun to grab if needed.

[fightingquaker13]

I load up with trap loads (7 1/2 or 8 shot low base).  I have cases of the stuff around, it is going to give minimal penetration on walls, if you have furniture it will not penetrate that, but it will do serious damage anywhere within the house.

I've killed everything from a coyote down out to 20 yards on the yard, so I'm not concerned about enough hit for a person inside the house.

I do have some larger shot in high base (3" shells) in holders with the gun if I need it.  The gun is 8+1, and I keep one in the chamber, but only six in the magazine.  This way I can pump a couple "big dudes" in if I need before the SHTF.  I also have some slugs with the gun to grab if needed.

If it won't penetrate furniture, how will it get through the breast bone and to the heart and lungs? Just ask'in.
FQ13

[Sponsor]

[MikeBjerum]

If it won't penetrate furniture, how will it get through the breast bone and to the heart and lungs? Just ask'in.
FQ13

It'll knock them off their feet, it will damage organs, and it will take out eyes.  Inside four feet it will take out your skull ... sadly I've tried to put more than one back together.

Just a few pellets getting into the lungs and liver will bring death pretty damn quick, and these loads have that capability.

[azshooter270]

...but has enough penetration and mass to do the job. Bird shot does not. ... and if you aim these will be absorbed by the BG. Birdshot just won't do it. It only penetrates through about an inch of flesh. ..., and I've been running shotguns for better than 30 years.
FQ13

Even at short distance, only an inch in flesh? 
I've been "peppered" many times out dove hunting, but it's never broken the skin, but that's a80+ yds.
It's funny you mentioned #4 buck, because I remember hearing that years ago (maybe that's what FBI uses?)

[fightingquaker13]

Look guys, you're asking me questions that you should be asking Pincus and other folks that know. Me, I'm an academic, I research. But on this topic, its all book learnin' as I've never shot anybody, been shot, or seen anyone shot. The good lord willing it will stay that way. I would once again reccomend www.theboxotruth.com. The guy's tests are very commonsense, practical and well photographed and explained with no jargon. Likewise there is an excllent podcast from Ayoob and others on shotgun loads that was postedon this board by Eric I think (its about an hour long but worth every minute). These are two of my sources as well as talking to LEOs and military about what they load and why. I am no expert. I'm just saying what I use and why.
FQ13

[azshooter270]

Interesting web site and experiment.  I would have liked to see a 12ga out of short shotgun barrel v. the Judge.  Maybe its there is more on the website.  I too tired to look tonite.
Thanks

[Texas_Bryan]

I saw a video online here, sorry I can't find it right now the video page don't got it, where Mr. Pincus shot though several dry wall setups.  The wall simulators where set up, I believe, six deep, with each wall four or five feet apart.  The .45, .223, slug, and buck penetrated all or near every wall, but the #6 shot only went through one piece of sheet rock and stopped without going all the way through a single wall.  An obvious winner, it kept any extremely tight group tight group at a several yards out of a tactical shotgun.  It would be very destructive to any intruder in side the home and reduce the chance of over penetration.  Like the team said, soft tissue, face, eyes, lungs, heart, even if you don't have any mortal wounds on the first shot, your BG's going down with a half roll of quarters in lead going in him.  Follow up shots if you need to.  In my defense shot gun for home, I'm running 3" #6 magnums, turkey loads.  40 feet is only ten yards,  you should hold a tight group at that and be highly effective.  Yeah you want to shoot buck, but I'd play it safe with the family and use a round you know still won't let you down.  Reference this video for some ammo info, I found it very informative, they show the power of slug, buck, and bird shot, as well as some exotics.

You may consider prioritizing a load out, similar to LE, by first four rounds #6, and the last rounds using a heavy buck, in case you have to shoot through cover, such as heavy furniture or a vehicle.

Good luck.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ievbU3xIYGQ