CCW Questions, Red Dot on Pistols

[JC5123]

I was reading the article about modified guns used for CCW leaving you open to trouble from an overzealous prosecutor.

http://www.downrange.tv/blog/will-a-modified-gun-used-in-self-defense-get-you-in-legal-trouble/36085/

 This ties into something that I have been thinking about since Michael talked about it on the Podcast, and the more I have been following Gabe Suarez. I like the idea of a red dot optic on a pistol. Admittedly I am not the strongest pistol shooter. When I have used a dot, my speed and accuracy gets much closer to that of my carbine.

However, what I have been rattling around is whether or not having a dot on your pistol would be used against you by a prosecutor. Also, I have doing a lot this year in the realm of SD training. Based on statistics, and context. Looking at what is plausible, and probable, I am not really sold on having a dot on my self defense weapon. Mostly because inside of 5 yards, I'm pretty much point shooting.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not trolling here, and I specifically post this here because I know that I will get some honest discussion from people who are much more experienced than I in this matter. I am Hoping that MB and Alf will chime in, because I know they both have been in the hot seat with a dot equipped pistol. I guess what I am asking here is: do you guys think that the extra bulk/ weight/ possible prosecutorial risk, is worth the benefit of that rapid sight picture?

[tombogan03884]

You've been here WAY to long for anyone to think you're a troll.
My opinion is that an over zealous prosecutor could use ANYTHING including membership in this forum as a chance to advance his anti gun, anti white, anti self defense political credit.
That however is just an opinion, others will probably disagree.
I don't think a reasonable person would have a problem with it.
You could ask your local one.
Speaking of "trolling" which is better, a Glick in 45 or a 1911 in 9mm ?   

[JC5123]

I have just been thinking about trying a dot (seriously) and I am wondering from those that have seen the light, what pushed them there, do they think it's worthwhile on a daily carry, etc.

[tombogan03884]

Seems to me that it can't hurt.
Not sure about durability, but Gabel Suarez is still working with them and MB seems to be a convert .
Those seem like good recommendations to me.

[JC5123]

I agree. That's why I ask. I have huge respect for those guys. So what converted them, how practical have they found them to be?

One question I do have is whether they find it to be a hindrance at super close range, say 3-5 yards. When the dot is there, are you able to ignore it? Does it slow you down when you really don't need it? 

[Sponsor]

[ellis4538]

I agree with tom...an overzealous prosecutor might try anything against you.  Then again you can argue that anything that makes you more accurate makes you less likely to shoot an innocent/s!  You can also argue that a worked over trigger pull makes it easier to shoot more accurately.  You makes your choices and takes your chances.

JMHOFWIW

Richard

[alfsauve]

While I appreciate the shout out, I'm far from an expert in this matter.

As far as accuracy and speed, obviously red-dots are the way to go.  Just look at the unlimited class in USPSA and in Shooting Steel.

My problem with them is two fold:

One problem is finding the dot and getting it on target.   I typically have the barrel doing figure 8's until I can find the stupid dot.

Unless you practice A LOT, and I mean practice as in knee deep in brass practice a lot, finding the red-dot and getting it on target quickly is a challenge.   I'm willing to bet that the Shooting Steel masters are so practiced that they could get the first shot on target with their eyes closed.   For most of us, that's not practical.  We don't have the time or money to put multi-thousand rounds down range... weekly.   

What Gabe taught me was that by using co-witness sights the eye can see those iron sights even off target and line the gun up.  When the red dot then finally comes into view you can use it.  in fact the eye/mind seem to transition to it automatically.

My other problem is reliability.

Will it be there when you need it?  That has pretty much been put to rest with the current state of technology.  Rugged sights with long lasting batteries has taken most of that concern away.    For a price!   Buy the cheaper ones and all bets are off.

I like the idea (co-witness red-dot)  but to do it right cost more than it's worth to me at this time.     Next major change in my EDC will include a red-dot though.

I don't consider this a liability issue.   Having an slide back plate with a grim reaper image would be much more of an issue.

[GASPASSERDELUXE]

I've had a Luepold delta point on my M&P9 for about the past 8 months. It was $450 from Midway and came with a kit of parts to fit about 10 different model guns. The only down side was I had to remove the rear sight so you can't cowitness thru it.




 

[tombogan03884]

The ones I've seen on Glick G-40's also mount in the rear sight dovetail.

[alfsauve]

To answer the other question.   The trick is training.  If you have drilled to ALWAYS find the dot, then you're going to wastes time (get killed) with close in targets. In competition I've done point shooting, but I planned to do it in advance for shooting that stage.  In SD scenario you need to also have planned/practiced/drilled in advance that at certain distances you're going to just point and shoot.   

Gabe, BTW, can provide Glock slides cut for mounting Red Dots ahead of the rear sight.