Cops raid wrong house

[Pathfinder]

Does the military wait until the bad guy comes out, no innocents hurt, always the right info. Do you think drug lords are any better than kidnappers murders rapist, do you know that most of the aforementioned are doing these crimes because of drugs or the need of them. Just wait them out? I'm not going to get into that political pile of#@$!. I respect what all of you have had to say but  we (most of us) strive to make sure people are safe and don't think that people suffer consciouses when things go bad. All I'm saying is nobody and I MEAN nobody is perfect, if you are ,you do the job, lets see you go through  the door. P.I.G. Pride Integrity Guts! And that is the last I have to say on this matter.

Haz responded to this, but I need to weigh in here too. The police forces are not the military, never have been, and in this country God forbid they ever do. In recent decades, the police have been militarized to a great degree, but the military is and should be completely separate from the constabulary. Police are (supposed to view us as citizens with rights. The military views their opponents as "the enemy". Do you really suggest the police should view us civilians as "the enemy"?

Re' your comment "we (most of us) strive to make sure people are safe and don't think that people suffer consciouses when things go bad", first, remember Benjamin Franklin's comments on security and freedoms, and do you think for a moment that the cops who stole the weapons in NO during Nagin's illegal searches and illegal seizures suffer one pang of conscious when they go to the range and shoot off their "freebie" that they stole confiscated and, oh, by the way, just happened to forget it is in their car and forgot to turn it in to the impound?

No one is suggesting the police should be perfect, but that imperfection is exactly why the lazy, sloppy LEO work (like relying solely on an informant) that often leads to no-knock warrants get civilians killed, lots of them. Who gives a crap that the LEO feels bad? An innocent civilian is dead because of a no-knock warrant. The Hmong guy in Minneapolis is one lucky man, given the automatic firepower the he was facing with just a shotgun.

Haz, thanks for posting the map. I could not remember where I had seen it.

[ismram]

Oh, I get it! Drug dealers good! Cops bad!

[Hazcat]

Oh, I get it! Drug dealers good! Cops bad!

Stop being childish.  No one said that.  What I (and I think Pathfinder) am saying is NO ONE has the right to enter my house with out knocking.  You have a warrant?  Good, present it to me and the enter like police (servants of the People), not like home invaders.

Drugs are not a reason for no knocks.  I can think of a number of different and less dangerous ways.  Could the drugs get flushed?  Yep, and who cares about that? 

[ismram]

Stop being childish.  No one said that.  What I (and I think Pathfinder) am saying is NO ONE has the right to enter my house with out knocking.  You have a warrant?  Good, present it to me and the enter like police (servants of the People), not like home invaders.

Drugs are not a reason for no knocks.  I can think of a number of different and less dangerous ways.  Could the drugs get flushed?  Yep, and who cares about that? 

That's your view! Not law! As I said before I too beleive in the 4th A. There is nothing in the 4th A that say's you must knock to serve a legal warrant! Let me add one thing. Sloppy police work cannot be tolerated!! Bad warrants, bad information, and bad cops should be dealt with. I am not condoning any of these. These things are tools to be used, but must be used correctly.                   (As for being childish, my wife tells me that all the time.)

[Hazcat]

I acknowledged in a previous post that it was legal.  There are such things as bad laws.

Please explain to me how putting the police in danger, possibly putting innocent persons in the house in danger, putting neighbors in danger (possible stray rounds) etc. is better than oh...

Waiting until wanted person or persons leave and then arrest, or if it is so vital then spend the man power to survail and arrest or if even more urgent surround and contain.

All of those options are less dangerous to the public and the police and I didn't even mention wrong addresses or bad info which also ups the ante of public endangerment.

[Sponsor]

[Pathfinder]

That's your view! Not law! As I said before I too beleive in the 4th A. There is nothing in the 4th A that say's you must knock to serve a legal warrant! Let me add one thing. Sloppy police work cannot be tolerated!! Bad warrants, bad information, and bad cops should be dealt with. I am not condoning any of these. These things are tools to be used, but must be used correctly.

Haz, right on the money.

Ismram, I honestly do not know where to begin. The Law - well, there are good laws and bad ones. But since court case after court case has clearly demonstrated that the police are not obligated in any way, shape or form to intervene ever under the law, I wonder why the police choose, voluntarily to intervene in no-knock searches, especially as they do stretch the 4th Amendment even tho "legal" in some eyes.

As for not having to knock to serve a warrant, that is true if I am standing in public. If you want to come into my home, a home I work for, pay for, I pay the taxes on, I maintain - without government help, mind you - then you damn well better knock first and ask permission to enter. Especially if you're wearing a badge.

I hope you, as a LEO understand the basic premise behind that last paragraph.

In the interest of the season, I'm not going to go beyond that.

Everyone have a Merry Christmas, and remember that Christ is the reason for this season.

[ismram]

I acknowledged in a previous post that it was legal.  There are such things as bad laws.

Please explain to me how putting the police in danger, possibly putting innocent persons in the house in danger, putting neighbors in danger (possible stray rounds) etc. is better than oh...

Waiting until wanted person or persons leave and then arrest, or if it is so vital then spend the man power to survail and arrest or if even more urgent surround and contain.

All of those options are less dangerous to the public and the police and I didn't even mention wrong addresses or bad info which also ups the ante of public endangerment.

Small police dept's are going to put 20 officer's around a house for three days waiting for the bad guys to come out. When they could be solving other cases. As for Police in danger, try a (Quote) normal traffic stop! Putting innocent persons in danger BAD POLICE WORK! Wrong address BAD POLICE WORK! Bad info BAD POLICE WORK! Those cannot be tolerated!!! Yes, there are too many no knocks! But there are times when they are the think to do. I agree with you 100% that any raid on the wrong house is inexcusable. I would never argue that. That's my last post on this subject.             Merry Christmas to all!

[Hazcat]

Path, ismram,

Good discussion!

Peace to all and MERRY CHRISTMAS HO HO HO!!!!!

And here is a link to a Christmas song y'all might like http://blogs.tampabay.com/bizarre/2007/12/merry-hot-flori.html

SAFE FOR ALL AGES (just funny and kinda neat)