CCW and restriction signs in malls or business establishments...........

[CDR]

I've been listening to GunTalk with Tom Gresham for the past couple of hours and some fascinating dialogue has been going on regarding the Mall Shooting in Omaha, Nebraska and the killing zones created by the owners of this mall.   I strongly recommend everyone to tune in on the podcast rebroadcast later tonight.

It seems that if you carry in a mall, or any other posted area for that matter, where it states "No guns", that this actually negates your concealed carry permit for that state while in that posted area.  My question is whether or not you are violating state and/or federal law and risk losing your CCW permit , or is it simply a courtesy that the mall or business establishment requests your compliance?  Personally, as there would be no way that anyone would know you are carrying, I would never contemplate disarming myself due to a lawyers paranoia to protect themselves from liability issues which, in turn, leaves myself and family members defenseless.    I would ignore such ridiculous signs as I feel my CCW permit does, in fact, permit me to carry within the state according to state and federal laws.  The specific restrictions are explicit in that one cannot carry in federal buildings such as post offices, courthouses and schools, etc.  Malls and businesses are not listed under my state restricted areas and I'll be damned if I would permit an individual to make up their own rules to take it upon themselves to apply their own unique restriction.  Should my firearm be seen and the business establishment request that I leave the premise as a courtesy, that is fine and I have no issue with that and would comply.   But do they have a legal right to insist that you disarm yourself and, more importantly, can it have legal consequences that can cost you your permit if the gun is found?

An interesting question for CCW carriers.

[ellis4538]

Check the web site for your state attorney general for your best answer and an attorney if possible.  Where I live it is written in the law that you can't carry in certain areas.  If you do you become an instant felon and loose all your rights!!!!!!!

[joemerchant24]

CDR;

That is all well and good, but what you have to realize is that here in Nebraska, the law gives those signs put up by businesses the exact same weight at as those places (courthouse, hospital, etc.) listed specifically in state law.

To be busted in a posted business carries the same penalty as being busted in a state courthouse.

Many people like to answer this problem with "concealed means concealed" but that's no answer. After a few CCW busts make the news, the antis start to gain support for maybe repealing that there CCW law, since the people who get them can't follwo the law.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's how it is.

[CDR]

Check the web site for your state attorney general for your best answer and an attorney if possible.  Where I live it is written in the law that you can't carry in certain areas.  If you do you become an instant felon and loose all your rights!!!!!!!

I'm well versed in my state law on CCW and there are no restrictions other than the common ones I mentioned previously such as schools and government buildings.  This is why I would not agree to self imposed restrictions put forth by business owners who take it upon themselves to decide that their area is gun free, when your permit and state law doesn't restrict you from carrying in such establishments.  If your state restricts you and it is explicitly stated in its laws then by all means those are the rules to be employed and abided by.  Absent of that, all other restrictions, I believe fall under a courtesy that is up to you whether or not you wish to grant and should have no legal reprecussion beyond that....IMHO.

I'm interested to hear others views on this.

[warhawke]

Here in MI you can carry anywhere not specifically denied by law, however, if you carry in a place where the owner has posted a no concealed carry warning you can be charged with trespassing and the county CCW board can use that as an excuse to deny renewal. Each state law is different however.

[Sponsor]

[CDR]

CDR;

That is all well and good, but what you have to realize is that here in Nebraska, the law gives those signs put up by businesses the exact same weight at as those places (courthouse, hospital, etc.) listed specifically in state law.

To be busted in a posted business carries the same penalty as being busted in a state courthouse.

Many people like to answer this problem with "concealed means concealed" but that's no answer. After a few CCW busts make the news, the antis start to gain support for maybe repealing that there CCW law, since the people who get them can't follwo the law.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's how it is.

That's really an unfortunate thing as was evidenced the other day.  Given that Nebraska does legally make your CCW essentially null and void when a business posts a sign, then I understand completely why one wouldn't carry in such a gun free "killing zone".  My argument is with those establishments who feel they can impose their own self disarming laws on legal CCW holders just because they don't want guns in their establishments when they have no legal ability to do so, unlike Nebraska.  In those states I see it as a courtesy that should be up to the CCW holder to grant if he or she wishes.

[CDR]

Here in MI you can carry anywhere not specifically denied by law, however, if you carry in a place where the owner has posted a no concealed carry warning you can be charged with trespassing and the county CCW board can use that as an excuse to deny renewal. Each state law is different however.

Is it reasonable to assume and believe that in such a posted establishment, should  a business owner see your concealed gun for some reason, that the first logical course of action would be for the owner to point out his sign and kindly ask the offending citizen to leave.  In which case, certainly, the CCW should grant the courtesy.  If this is reasonable, then I would think that this would never be elevated to a trespassing charge and allow the CCW holder to feel confident that he should be able to carry in posted areas as long as a polite and courteous mindset is employed.  Maybe I'm wrong but I think that few people would create a truly serious offense in such circumstances. I think I'd rather be safe than worrying about a trespassing charge which is highly unlikely.

[wheels]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316267,00.html

I don't get why this lady got arrested for carrying a gun. Can anyone please explain.

[ismram]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316267,00.html

I don't get why this lady got arrested for carrying a gun. Can anyone please explain.

I'm from Pa. and I know that Pa. and Fl. have a reciprocity agreement. Perhaps she does not have a Concealed Carry permit, or she was arrested for tresspass. Here in Pa. some malls post signs that say no guns. It's the right of the property owner if they don't want guns on there property. I still carry!!! If they notice that I am packing, they can ask me to leave and I will. If you refuse to leave thats when you will get arrested for tresspass. There is a mall close to me that has a no gun policy. I've been going there for years and did not know this. A friend of mine told me. They have a couple of small signs on a few light posts in the parking lot. How can they inforce a ban on guns when you don't see there little signs. My god, you have to park right in front of them to see them!

[Hazcat]

The only thing I can say is that she must not have a CCW.

I live in Florida and though I have not been to Disney, I go th Universal several times a year.  I carry concealed (CCW Holder) and I can tell you that the Universal parks are NOT posted and in any case FL law does not allow businesses to post their property as "no carry" sites.