LOCAL IDPA MATCHES

[ismram]

I regularly shoot IDPA at a local club. There is only one police officer that shoots with us at these matches. When I asked him why other officers don't come with him. He got very quiet, he then explained to me how upset he was with them. It seems that they are afraid they will be shown up by ciivilians. He's been trying to get them to come for some time now. He can't get them to understand that improving there marksmenship could save there lives, or someones else. (It's sad don't you think!)

[m25operator]

It is sad, but let me put you into another perspective. As a competition shooter, you stand out . If you were to randomly pick 100 gun owners, not people you know from your club. Then get a show of hands who competes, It is probably less than 2%. Where I live we have a nice gun club on 10 acres of land with many competitions. We are in a flood zone within 20 miles of 5 big cities, our membership has always been around 500, the club was started in 1929, been at the present location since 1975, and still only 500 members. Of those 500 members, only about 100 actually compete, and that's split between, bullseye, practical shooting, plate shooters, air gun shooters, silhouette shooters, tactical shotgun, defense shooting, etc.. and you will see a lot of the same faces at the different matches. Probably a 3rd of the competitors at a given match are from somewhere else. I don't know how big the police department is your guy comes from, but the percentage will probably hold true. That does not include the police who may shoot internal or fraternal matches within their community.

As you know civilians can't shoot PPC, matches, so at our club We started a PPC match, that was unsanctioned but followed the same rules, targets, distances, time limits and positions. We had several LEO's show up for it and they were a little surprised at us civies being there, but they knew their discipline better than we did and had a good time. They continued to come and we civies learned the game too. At the end of a year, We had a club championship, and I won by one point, I shot 1464 out of 1500 possible. That's enough for high master, but of course We were not sanctioned.  A lot of fun though. Made some good law enforcement friends.

That leads to a personal note. It was a Dallas Texas Swat Officer that made me into a gun nut . I was invited to go shooting with some friends, and this man was the brother in law of one of our group. We went out to the country, with our hunting guns and pistols. He brought, an HK91, HK93, 22 conversion kit, Kahles scopes on the HK claw mounts and plenty of ammo. He let us all shoot his goodies, and I was hooked, my wife got me an HK91 for my next birthday. I spent the next 25 years trying to emulate this guy, He retired recently and is having a ball, just got back from Africa.

[ismram]

It is sad, but let me put you into another perspective. As a competition shooter, you stand out . If you were to randomly pick 100 gun owners, not people you know from your club. Then get a show of hands who competes, It is probably less than 2%. Where I live we have a nice gun club on 10 acres of land with many competitions. We are in a flood zone within 20 miles of 5 big cities, our membership has always been around 500, the club was started in 1929, been at the present location since 1975, and still only 500 members. Of those 500 members, only about 100 actually compete, and that's split between, bullseye, practical shooting, plate shooters, air gun shooters, silhouette shooters, tactical shotgun, defense shooting, etc.. and you will see a lot of the same faces at the different matches. Probably a 3rd of the competitors at a given match are from somewhere else. I don't know how big the police department is your guy comes from, but the percentage will probably hold true. That does not include the police who may shoot internal or fraternal matches within their community.

As you know civilians can't shoot PPC, matches, so at our club We started a PPC match, that was unsanctioned but followed the same rules, targets, distances, time limits and positions. We had several LEO's show up for it and they were a little surprised at us civies being there, but they knew their discipline better than we did and had a good time. They continued to come and we civies learned the game too. At the end of a year, We had a club championship, and I won by one point, I shot 1464 out of 1500 possible. That's enough for high master, but of course We were not sanctioned.  A lot of fun though. Made some good law enforcement friends.

That leads to a personal note. It was a Dallas Texas Swat Officer that made me into a gun nut . I was invited to go shooting with some friends, and this man was the brother in law of one of our group. We went out to the country, with our hunting guns and pistols. He brought, an HK91, HK93, 22 conversion kit, Kahles scopes on the HK claw mounts and plenty of ammo. He let us all shoot his goodies, and I was hooked, my wife got me an HK91 for my next birthday. I spent the next 25 years trying to emulate this guy, He retired recently and is having a ball, just got back from Africa.

Our club is only a few miles from this semi-large city. The city has seen a large increase in drug and gang crime in the last few years. Police and civies being shot at. For the officer that comes to our shoots, the police dept. even supplies the officer's gun equipment and ammo. for him. Now who woudn't take advantage of that? Especially if your life might depend on it some day.

[MikeBjerum]

We have opened our range to officers at any time they would like, we have offered to set up practice and competitions in ways to help them, and we have offered to buy airsofts that match their service weapons and let them use our club house (a trailer home still set up like a home) for practice.  They talk positive, but never take us up on it. 

After hours of talking with them I have come to two main conclusions:

1.  Many officers are not "gun nuts" like the rest of us.  Weapons are just another part of their job, and they get just as tired of the training requirements required for carrying as they do for all the other aspects of their jobs.  I can understand this, because for 15 years I was an EMT and and instructor for both EMT's and Firefighters for many of these years.  As much as I loved the ability and opportunity to help and even save people both personally and through the training I gave, the taking of CPR refresher courses every year, American Red Cross First Aid refreshers every year, taking a written test on how to stop bleeding every two years, ... finally made me say enough.  I don't need this BS!  If you don't truly love guns and shooting the requirements of the job can take the fun and interest out of it.

2.  Many officers really are nervous about what we think of their skills.  Many are terrible shots and need lots of practice.  Many of us get our wives and children out to the range and work them through the tough times.  However, these cops believe they should be better and are afraid of what we will think.  We use IPSC paper, large poppers and eight inch steel plates for the most part, and complain about our marksmanship at ten to 25 yards, then we get an officer that can't hit a popper they are walking up on till they get within ten feet.  We first realized our officers needed help when a couple came to a bowling pin shoot and only one out of three was able to even hit one pin.  I don't mean this to tear down the officers.  They just need practice, but they are ashamed of their ability.

We have had some success on the skill problem by inviting them as friends and small group and one on one practice.  However, we have not been able to find a way to overcome the "boredom" factor.  Any suggestions?

To let you know how serious a problem this is I heard how much free practice ammo these officers have available to them.  It is unreal.  All they have to do is go out and use it for practice.  I have tried to visualize having that much free ammo for a single caliber and nearly faint everytime.  How does someone like many of us relate to someone that is lukewarm at best?

[Hazcat]

My club is off limits even to members every Monday and Tuesday cause we rent it to the county sheriff and the local FBI.  I can only hope that ALL of the officers are getting good training and not just SWAT / undercover types.

[Sponsor]

[ismram]

Ok, So what is the answer?  How do we get police officers to improve there skills? The guy that shoots with us is not a very good shot, and he knows it. He says he ace's his dept's COF, so it must be a joke! At least he knows what he has to do.

[Trevor]

I agree with M25operator that the percentage of police officers participating in IPSC or IDPA is probably about the same of that of gunowners in general.  Attracting new shooters and retaining them is a challenge that every pistol club faces.  What to do about this issue is for another thread.  As for helping the person in question improve, I would say that task is up to him.  There are proven ways to shoot more effectively.  The player must seize the moment though to make it happen.  This truism is why I like IPSC and IDPA: There are no excuses; the individual shooter is entirely responsible for whether he or she has a good day or bad day on the range, and it is not what is on the paper that counts.  It is attitude in the clubhouse at the end of the day.  Everyone knows who the gentlemen and the jerks are!

[cookie62]

Ok, So what is the answer?  How do we get police officers to improve there skills? The guy that shoots with us is not a very good shot, and he knows it. He says he ace's his dept's COF, so it must be a joke! At least he knows what he has to do.

Of the deptartments I know of around here they are all over the board. One is a one shot from 10 yard line, others range from 10 to 50 shots. Ours is 50 from 5, 7, 15, and 25 yards. Starting next year I have heard we will drop to 35 shots none over 15 yards. I know the Il. State Police use a move and shoot that I hear is Fairly tough if your not in good shape. It includes moving and the use of cover.

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