I'm Tired....................

[Thanos]

If more teachers had students like Sasha and Malia, the public schools wuld be better places.

Hate to burst your bubble here, Obama sends his kids to PRIVATE SCHOOL. Why? Even he knows public schools suck!
So does Michael Moore and Bill Clinton and (Insert Libreal name here)

Our school system sucks and I for one am sick of throwing money at a broken system. We spend more money than any other nation and we have the lowest achievement levels. That is nothing short of pathetic. The government is ineffective in everything they do from the DMV to the FBI. Come on, it is a joke how many times they screw up and we just brush it off. Name one thing they are better than the private sector. (Don't feel bad, no one has ever been able to answer my challenge.)

[fightingquaker13]

Hate to burst your bubble here, Obama sends his kids to PRIVATE SCHOOL. Why? Even he knows public schools suck!
So does Michael Moore and Bill Clinton and (Insert Libreal name here)

Our school system sucks and I for one am sick of throwing money at a broken system. We spend more money than any other nation and we have the lowest achievement levels. That is nothing short of pathetic. The government is ineffective in everything they do from the DMV to the FBI. Come on, it is a joke how many times they screw up and we just brush it off. Name one thing they are better than the private sector. (Don't feel bad, no one has ever been able to answer my challenge.)

 
Our military doesn't suck, and last I heard, they were government run. Since the day man crawled out of the caves, we've wondered what was on the moon. Every day I've been alive I've been able to know that there was an American flag flying up there. Last I heard, it it didn't have a "Brought to you by Budweiser" sticker on it either. I don't mean to be either harsh, nor overly idealiastic. I AM saying, that when it matters the USA is capable of getting the job done. Yes, there is waste and mismangement etc in education, and yes reform is necessary, but the same applies to the DOD.Yet I don't see the right villifying the officer corps. The bottom line is that a free, universal public education is MORE important to the preservation of a democratic republic than are all the kings horses and all the kings men. Why don't we take it seriously, and spend a tenth of what we've pissed away in Iraq and make it happen? Public, vouchers, charter, I don't give a damn. Just make it happen and don't whine about the cost. This is the ultimate national security issue. We need to treat it as such.
FIGHTINGquaker13
PS As far as Obama's kids going to public school, get real! Do you seriously think that in a post 911 world the the children of the president, or their classmates for that matter, would be safe in a public school. I did my undergrad in DC, about 2 miles from Sidwell Friends (GO QUAKERS!!) and they always served children of diplomats and such. They are known not just for the quality of education, but the quality of security as  well. Lets live in the real world and understand that those two little girls are at a serious risk of kidnapping or worse

[tombogan03884]

Coroner and Fightingquaker, You have taken my point much further, more eloquently than I could. It comes back to that old saying that "you get out of it what you put into it".
If all you do is throw money at something, (and bitch about that) OF COURSE the system will be taken over by other who DO take an interest. Any one who has Kids and thinks badly of the education system should apply the same energy to THAT problem that they apply to the 2nd Amendment, or their golf game or what ever.
 

[THE CORONER]

No. But do you want the least common denominator helping your kids? Most teachers get a degree in teaching...wow, so what they hell do they know? How to teach? Not likely, and more important they can't teach my kids calculus and differential equations because they didn't learn any of that in their "Teacher Program"

Calculus huh?  Most high schools don't even offer calculus classes anymore.  Hell, most kids are lucky to pass basic math.  Most fail Algebra I and II.  Trigonometry if they have enough kids qualified to take the class, but calculus....well, it's touched on briefly in another math class as is Trig., but most kids can't get a handle on it, because they're just trying to pass Algebra class.

Are you an M.I.T. graduate or something?  You work for NASA?  We're talking about kids barely attending classes everyday, and your ranting about whether a math teacher is qualified to teach calculus.  Like I said earlier, I'm not a doctor, or lawyer; but I have enough common sense to understand why a high school would hire a teacher to teach a particular math class.  Okay, I'll tell you...because that's the class their qualified to teach.  It's what they were hired to teach.  I'm a truck driver.  I'm not going to be hired by homeland security just because I own a gun.  If your son or daughter isn't getting their calculus lesson at their school, and their educational requirements demand it; perhaps a school with a calculus qualified teacher is the answer.

While I'm trying kinda hard not to be insulting to you, alittle common sense goes along way friend.  I think in all fairness to teachers, of any class whether it be calculus, creative writing, world history, conceal and carry, advanced firearm training, etc....RESPECT for them, in their ability to continue to learn, and to be better at whatever their discipline may be, is not for you or I to belittle.

While a Calculus teacher might be able to drive a commercial truck with a little training.  I, on the other hand, could not teach a calculus class in a lifetime.  Especially students who don't respect me in class, and are unwilling to learn.   Until you've spent alittle time in their shoes, one shouldn't disrespect the efforts of others to make a difference.  It makes you, well.....well, I'm a gentleman, so I'll leave it alone.

So?  Which one are you?  Part of the problem, or part of the solution?

Are you a parent who would vote down school tax levys to buy new band uniforms, a gymnasium, vocational equipment, etc...but would pay hundreds, if not thousands of dollars to a lawyer to sue the school board because your son/daughter didn't get picked for a position on the debate club, or the cheerleading squad?  Are you that parent?  

While this forum is designated for us to "agree to disagree" I don't know you anymore than you know me.  But your opinion on teachers, and school administrators, is well......one driveway short of the trailer park friend.  God Bless!  

[Thanos]

 
Our military doesn't suck, and last I heard, they were government run.

PS As far as Obama's kids going to public school, get real!

OUr Military is the best in the world with the finest men on the planet in it...but, the government screws it up. Look how little they are paid, the crap that they put up with and the conditions that they live in. To top that all off, the mantra in all forces is "Hurry up and wait" no business in the world would run like that. They are funded by a bottomless pit of money and that is the only thing that keeps them going financially. I spent 7 years in the Air Force and would do it again (Although I might do Marines instead) but the military is run by a bureacratic pack of idiots when it comes to getting things done. If you let the USMC and the USAF do their job, Iraq and Afghanistan would have been won a long time ago and insurgents would be a thing of the past.


Obama's kids went to private school in Chicago too. What was he told by a burning bush he was going to be President so he put them in private school there too? NO, he knew that public school sucks.

[Sponsor]

[Thanos]

Are you a parent who would vote down school tax levys to buy new band uniforms, a gymnasium, vocational equipment, etc...but would pay hundreds, if not thousands of dollars to a lawyer to sue the school board because your son/daughter didn't get picked for a position on the debate club, or the cheerleading squad?  Are you that parent? 

Of course not, I am planning on attending law school next year...

My point is that our sysstem is not working the way that it should. Calculus is not the difficult, but the foundation for it is never even taught to those who could learn it. America's ecudational system is set up to process everyone the same way just push them through. It offers no adaptation. For the money that America puts into the system they should be getting much more out.

I don't have a problem with people wanting to be school teachers, but I do have a problem with people who can read and wrtie going into a occupation that they can easily find the pay scale and then bitching about their compensation. The system that teaches our children is undenyably the worst in the world for the amount of money we put into it. Some schools have a 57% dropout rate, my question is why are the people who are running those schools still employed? And why are we throwing more moeny at a school like that?

They have proven their inability to succeed, fire everyone and start over in those schools.


P.S. Don't worry about insulting me, I am a big boy and I can take it.

[THE CORONER]

Of course not, I am planning on attending law school next year...

My point is that our sysstem is not working the way that it should.  America's ecudational system is set up to process everyone the same way just push them through. It offers no adaptation. For the money that America puts into the system they should be getting much more out.

For the money, parents should appreciate the opportunities afforded to their children.  While I agree with you that "certain" points of the educational systems are lacking; money tends to cater to money.  What I mean is....certain high rent school districts can afford a swim team and swimming facility; yet other less fortunate districts can't even afford busing.  But the rant about teachers "what do they know anyways" attitude you shared in an earlier post; was unwarranted. 

If the standards of our schools are so low, then why aren't all students passing classes, posting all "A's" grade cards, and graduating?  What was the percentage of drop outs?  57 percent?  Like I said earlier, a child's education starts at home with the parents.  If they're not part of the solution, then they're part of the problem.  Parents need to teach their children at home first.  The parent who lets others raise or teach his/her child, and then points the finger in blame as to why their child has failed, is a shameful individual.

It's not our government's responsibility to support us in life.  "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"  Like I said in an earlier post, our children are lazy and unmotivated to learn.  They think they know better than everyone else what's best for them, but they can't write a poem, or short story, because they don't have any imagination or ambition to learn how.  Your planning on going to law school you say...so I would hope that you would have a better handle on the reality of achieving an education.  Nothing in life is free.  Especially an education.  One has to work for it.  Have a plan, and see it through to the end.  The daily struggles of a parent with their child are the same for our education administrators.  If a parent can't control the child in their own home, why then do we expect our educators to?  Why even ask why?   Put the blame where it is warranted....on the lazy, unmotivated constantly complaining child, and the lazy, unmotivated, and constantly complaining parent.

Good luck at law school.  Anything worth doing, is worth doing right.  Anything right is worth doing.

[Thanos]

What I mean is....certain high rent school districts can afford a swim team and swimming facility; yet other less fortunate districts can't even afford busing. 

Another example of how the system is so broken.

But the rant about teachers "what do they know anyways" attitude you shared in an earlier post; was unwarranted. 

I don't take financial advice from people who are poor, I don't take educational advice from people who went to school for 8 years to make 40K as a teacher.

Put the blame where it is warranted....on the lazy, unmotivated constantly complaining child, and the lazy, unmotivated, and constantly complaining parent.

I will admit that much of the responsibility is on the parents, but they system cannot blame the parents forever. The issue that I find the most disturbing is the system is acting as an enabler to allow parents to let their kids be taught exclusively through the school. They want them from daycare age to 25 to be in their system and they fight like a mad dog if someone wants another option.

You cannot honsetly believe that a system that actively prevents competition, opposes earned pay rates and merit based promotions and pay, and thinks that the person who has been there the longest should keep their job above all other workers that may be more efficient, is a good system.

For the money, parents should appreciate the opportunities afforded to their children.

That sounds rather totalitarian, kind of like Pelosi saying that Republicans should appreciate what they got out of the stimulus bill. That is not the kind of system I appreciate. Besides, the cost is not free, it is the most expensive one we have.

[tombogan03884]

Bear in mind that the NEA is nothing more than another union, just like the greedy bastards who are helping to kill off the American auto industry.

[THE CORONER]

Another example of how the system is so broken.

Money for schools are delegated to districts based on several factors.  One being the populaton index.  Federal and State grants, Tax Levys, etc....The way that the money is budgeted by the district dictates where, when, and how the money is distributed.  However, and for whatever it's worth, teacher's salaries are figured in on a budget that may have been drawn up years in advance.  But I'm not going to argue the money management of school districts throughout the country.  They are all independent of each other, and should be treated as such.  If you don't like a particular hardware story, what do you do?  You go to another, right?  Same thing applies here.  You've chosen a law school over several others throughout the country?  Why?  Why not just go to the one closest to friends and family?  Because you have the option to choose.  That's what makes our school systems work.  A choice.  But then there will be flaws in every school at one point or another, won't there?  Except in a perfect world.  I unfortunately don't live there.

I don't take financial advice from people who are poor, I don't take educational advice from people who went to school for 8 years to make 40K as a teacher.

Wow!  As far as the financial debate goes.....What does that have to do with a parent's responsibility to teach their kids?  Secondly, what makes you think a teacher making 40K only goes to school for 8 years?  Furthermore; what makes you think a teacher only making 40K a year, isn't better qualified than one making 60K or more a year?  Still yet; I've never heard a teacher say they wanted to teach children for the money.  I think they are underpaid as a matter of fact.  Certainly they are rich individuals for being able to take the abuse handed out by ungrateful parents and children, while still being able to teach those who come to school to learn.
 
I will admit that much of the responsibility is on the parents, but they system cannot blame the parents forever. The issue that I find the most disturbing is the system is acting as an enabler to allow parents to let their kids be taught exclusively through the school. They want them from daycare age to 25 to be in their system and they fight like a mad dog if someone wants another option.

The system isn't blaming the parents.  The parents blame them.  As I see it, most school administrators are playing defense most of the time.  To be honest with you Thanos, I envision more acts of violence by teenagers without intervention by parents to pull off another Columbine type shooting or bombing event.  It's going to happen again.  They're more cruel and brazen then I would have ever believed our society would allow.  Thankfully, juvenile departments in our area, are learning quickly that these kids are out of control, and are taking steps to control their unruliness within the confines of the law.  And finally, on this point you claim they want them from daycare through age 25?  Come on my good man, are you kidding yourself?  Kids who fall in line in school and graduate aren't being held back by the system.  And furthermore, if the school has a problem child to deal with, they have a course of action they have to by law; play out to the letter.  If you went to work everyday knowing you had a problem co-worker to deal with, how long would you want to have to deal with them?  I'm pretty sure that problem students who constantly disrupt classes, threaten administrators and others, fail to do the school work, or etc....are a welcome sigh of relief to the school district, when they quit, or finally graduate.  Quitting is failure.  The school didn't quit them, they quit school.  I've never heard anybody say, "School quit me".  So give me a break, when you put teachers down for the 40K a year that they obviously EARN!

You cannot honestly believe that a system that actively prevents competition, opposes earned pay rates and merit based promotions and pay, and thinks that the person who has been there the longest should keep their job above all other workers that may be more efficient, is a good system.

Actively prevents competition?  What about practice makes perfect?  Most kids quit competitive activities in school because it takes up too much of their time, or it's too hard, or etc....How is teaching/coaching a student to learn a subject/skill preventing competition?  It's only when the kids fail to meet up to the expectations of parents do we ever hear this bullsh*t.  Why isn't my little Johnny pitching?  How come my daughter isn't starting on the volleyball team?  No competition?  Come on!  What about a student learning to be a team player, or the idea of school spirit, and fair play?  Hey, I played sports, football, basketball, track.  Every practice, was competition.  I know I couldn't compete with other students when it came to academic challenge.  But that's not the fault of the system.  It's my fault for not being a more intuitive student.  I could have competed.  The opportunity was there.  I choose not to.  How can that be a flaw of the system?  This is American high school's we're talking about right?  Because I still think even as a high school student, we are free to join, tryout, practice, and compete.  Right?

What does a teacher's salary, that they agreed to when they were hired, have to do with the system being flawed?  Teachers are paid according to the budget of the school district.  There are a lot of variables that dictate to how much money they have to work with.  It doesn't mean the teachers aren't qualified to do the job they were hired to do!  Perhaps they have decided early on when they began their education to become a teacher, that they didn't want to teach inner city kids, or maybe they did.  Why do you care about how much they make anyways?  Did you want to be a teacher?  What I mean is....everyone has to start somewhere.  If and, or when you get your license to practice law; do you expect a law firm to hire you right out of law school to handle a high profile case at a salary you agreed to start at?  Of course not.  So you have to prove your salt right?  The same thing is true with teachers.  They can and do apply to schools with a higher rate of pay when they choose to.  Most teachers find a district that they are quite content with, and raise families of their own there.  What's wrong with that?  There's nothing political about there choice to settle in one place or another?  This is America!

That sounds rather totalitarian, kind of like Pelosi saying that Republicans should appreciate what they got out of the stimulus bill. That is not the kind of system I appreciate. Besides, the cost is not free, it is the most expensive one we have.

Totalitarian huh?  Maybe you ought to go into corporate law so you can defend us against money grabbing financial institutions on the verge of financial destruction!  So they can't take our money with down with them.  It's okay to be a right fighter my friend, but blooding the waters with examples of government and private mismanagement, disillusions over whether teachers qualifications to teach are overshadowed by their rate of pay, or how competition and fair play doesn't exist in our schools, is just the ramblings of a bitter and unhappy individual.  And if you cannot appreciate the system, fix it, or drop it!  Complaining and blaming never got a thing done as far as I know?  

If you want to make a difference.  If you think you can do better, or have a better solution to the problems that plague our country, such as, mismanagement of schools, homeland security, taxes, the war effort, our judicial systems, law enforcement organizations, collaspe of our financial institutions, saving our auto industry, closing of businesses nationwide, rise in unemployment, workman's compensation, child support enforcement, or the housing dilema; then by all means, step up and be heard!  But if all your going to do is rant about the flaws of our education system without any solution, then don't play the blame card unless you've got your facts straight.  Once again, the problems that plague our schools today, start with the parents inability to parent at home first!  Accountability for one's actions, responsibility to bear them, and respect enough to understand them.