Some Iowa Sheriffs Have Their Undies In A Bunch Over New Shall Issue Law

[tt11758]

http://www.thehawkeye.com/story/Gun-law-111510

Local gun merchants are reporting an increase in firearm sales, specifically handguns, and area sheriffs are bracing themselves for a possible onslaught of new applicants as the new weapons carry permit law takes effect Jan. 1.

New application forms will be available in most sheriffs' offices this week. Applicants can pick them up but will not be able to return the forms until after Jan. 1.

Area county top cops have raised grave concerns about the new law, but said they will follow its requirements to the letter.

The National Rifle Association, however, praised lawmakers for what it calls "bringing back the right of the people to keep and bear arms, guaranteed under the Constitution."

Come January, Iowa will become a "shall-issue" state, joining 38 other states, which have enacted similar measures.

Senate File 2379, adopted 44-4, created uniform standards in all 99 counties for issuing permits to carry a firearm in public. Under the current law, local sheriffs can either grant or deny permits, with each county setting its own standards.

According to a state data, nearly 36,000 Iowans have permits to carry weapons. Starting in January, sheriffs can no longer require permit holders to keep their weapons, which not only includes handguns, but rifles and shotguns, concealed when they're in public.

Concerns and the 'new order'

One of the foremost vocal opponents of the new law, Des Moines County Sheriff Mike Johnstone, who also is an elected member of the board of directors of the Iowa Sheriffs and Deputies Association, said SF 2379 does not properly address many issues, first and foremost the training accompanying the qualification for a permit.

On the subject of carrying long guns in public, Johnstone said: "they can openly carry those over their shoulders, which I think will really disturb a lot of people."

"They can basically go anywhere with a loaded rifle, loaded shotgun, loaded AK47, loaded AR15 assault rifle," the sheriff added. "If they have a permit to carry, they can do that without restriction. That is a huge concern for me."

Of course there are places where carrying loaded weapons remains prohibited, such as a school zone, and the topic of firearms restrictions on private property and in the workplace is not addressed in Iowa firearms law.

"In my opinion, the whole thing is a political issue that was pushed through the governor's office right on down in an effort to gain votes," Johnstone said, adding state politicians got input from their local sheriffs about the bill "and they went against the recommendation of their local sheriffs. Very few of us agree that this needed to go to a shall-issue state."

The new carry-permit process does not require applicants to prove they have had practical training in shooting the weapon they will carry.

"You may not have fired this weapon, and you can legally carry it," Johnstone said. "Basically, you don't have to fire the weapon (in a shooting range) or have any training with the weapon in order to get a permit."

State residents who need to carry a handgun for their job can get a permit at 18 years old. Otherwise, applicants will need to be 21 years old to get a non-professional permit, which could be denied for several factors, including alcohol addiction or probable cause based on filed documents of past actions "that an applicant might use a weapon in a way to endanger himself, others or the public safety."

Anyone convicted of misdemeanor assault in the past three years will be denied a permit.

Also, the current fee of $10 will jump to $50 for five years with a $25-renewal fee. Applicants also must prove they went to a certified safety training course.

Although a person adjudicated as mentally ill is prohibited from getting a permit, someone who has mental issues and is under a doctor's care can get a permit.

"A person (under the new law) can walk into a tavern and drink to the point of intoxication and still openly carry the weapon," Johnstone said. "I'm a firm believer in the Second Amendment and the right to protect yourself, but to totally throw out the discretion (of the sheriff) creates a public issue."

Like Johnstone, Lee County Sheriff Jim Sholl has concerns with the new carry permit.

"Do I agree with the law? Well, I wish the sheriffs could enjoy some discretion in the matter, but they have taken that away from us," Sholl said. "Our position through the Iowa Sheriffs and Deputies Association is that it is the law and we intend to enforce that law - it does not matter whether we agree or disagree."

Sholl said the training issue draws some of the most concern.

"There should be some training requirements on the range learning how to use the weapon," Sholl said, likening it to someone getting a driver's license. "If you get a driver's license, you have to demonstrate your skills (in driving a vehicle)."

Another contention Sholl has is the allowing of permit holders to carry weapons up to the point of intoxication. He said legislators did not set parameters for law enforcement to tackle violations.

"They kind of left that window open," he said. "I just hope the majority of the citizens who choose to obtain a permit are going to act responsibly."

Johnstone said that doesn't always happen.

"The first thing that goes with alcohol use is judgment," he said.

Options for denial

A person denied a permit by a sheriff could appeal the decision through an administrative law process, then to a district court.

Sheriffs also would be required to put into writing the reasons for a denial.

In the past, sheriffs used their knowledge of their jurisdiction to pinpoint those who may have hidden problems, such as anger issues or non-adjuticated mental problems.

In Louisa County, Sheriff Brad Turner said he knows of five people in his county "that I'm pretty sure are going to be coming in to get a permit to carry and because of our in-house records and what not, I know they have no business having immediate access to a handgun."

"I don't know what type of records or what type of information is going to be enough to deny these people a permit to carry," Turner added.

Turner noted it also could be costly for taxpayers in the event a sheriff denies an application, due to the long process of an administrative proceeding or court battle.

"I agree with a lot of the law, but the law was pushed through so fast and it's so vague," Turner noted. "But some sheriffs may have created this problem. Some would not issue a single permit and some issue 300 a year. There was no uniformity."

Turner said he knows of a few people in his county he will deny and he is ready to put those denials in writing, as the new law would require.

"If I'm ordered by a judge to issue a permit and something bad happens, the first thing I'm going to show is that order," Turner confidently said, adding there has been a great demand in Louisa County to get permits the past year or so.

Johnstone said there are close to 600 permits to carry issued in Des Moines County. The number includes law enforcement and other related fields.

Three hundred to 400 are issued in Van Buren County, while there are 272 weapons carriers in Henry County.

So far, Louisa County has issued approximately 200 permits, and 84 are reported in Lee County.

Triumph

The Legislature passed the law last spring, with Democratic leaders in state House along with the Iowa Senate and Gov. Chet Culver, a Democrat, siding with the NRA and not with the sheriffs association, which strongly opposed it.

Alexa Fritts, a spokeswoman for NRA, said Iowa has fallen behind on gun rights legislation.

"We think (the new law) is a real victory for law-abiding gun owners in Iowa," she said. "It's only fair. If a person passes their background check and meets the other requirements of getting a permit, why should anyone be able to tell them on a whim that they should not be able to get a permit to defend themselves and their families?"

"These are law-abiding people we're talking about," Fritts noted. "It's not surprising that some of the sheriffs are upset about it because they like having that control. That's not the way our right to keep and bear arms is meant to be doled out."

Fritts said often in "may-issue" states, sheriffs would not grant a permit to "somebody who they just don't like for some personal reason."

"Or maybe they show favoritism to their friends and other people are left waiting and waiting and waiting to get their permits," Fritts said. "This law keeps things fair."

NRA, according to Fritts, is set to make Iowa one of its priorities for pushing more pro-gun legislation in the upcoming legislative session.

Sales are up

"Everybody's talking about it," Steve Hardy of Hardy Gun and Loan in Burlington said about the new permit process.

Hardy said his sales went up 50 percent to 75 percent, especially in recent months in anticipation of the change in the law.

"Guys are talking about it (getting handguns) for their wives, their girlfriends," Hardy said. "There are some, truck drivers for example, wanting something, a small concealable weapon for their home or while they are traveling."

Hardy agrees with the sheriffs who have concerns regarding range qualifying to get a permit. He said law enforcement officers have to qualify in the firing range twice a year, why not Joe the Plumber?

"That's plain old stupid for people asking for permits to not be required to prove they are proficient with the weapon," Hardy said.

When it comes to sales, Hardy said he had been selling quite a few smaller handguns, "such as a small .380, 9mm or smaller .45 slim models."

There also is a market for the reliable .38 caliber snub nose revolver, he added.

In West Burlington, Farm King also reported its handgun sales have been up the past year.

Letter of the law

The only way sheriffs can deny applicants who have passed background checks is through having probable cause that a person could be a danger to himself or others.

But what is probable cause under the new law?

Johnstone said it is vague.

There is talk, Johnstone said, of possibly standardizing the training, but he said he doubts the change will happen soon.

Johnstone said nearly 50 organizations have lobbied against the bill, including the American Civil Liberties Union, Iowa Medical Society, National Alliance for the Mentally Ill and the League of Women Voters.

Johnstone said lawmakers have ignored the dangers of pursuing such a drastic measure, focusing only on political fruits and not the end result.

"The legislators were all warned, they were all told," he said. "But they chose to do it anyway. The law is a lot worse that what we expected."

Work did not end with the passing of the bill into law. Johnstone said the sheriffs association will continue to work next year in addressing issues under the new issuance of permits, including getting the training standardized and clarified, parameters dealing with those with mental issues and the open carrying of firearms, just to name a few.

Johnstone said like any other sheriffs, he is preparing for a possible increase in permit applications come January, noting, "I think there's a lot of people poised out there to jump on this."

But for now, sheriffs have no choice but to fulfill their duties.

"It's the law and we plan to follow it to the letter," Johnstone said. "We can only work to make the law safer as time goes by."

Is it just me, or do some of these guys sound more like people who are incensed that their little fiefdoms were challenged, rather than having legitimate concerns on public safety?

Again.........WHAT PART OF "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" IS SO FREAKING HARD TO UNDERSTAND?!?


btw:  Emphasis in the quoted portion is mine.

[deepwater]

Is it just me, or do some of these guys sound more like people who are incensed that their little fiefdoms were challenged, rather than having legitimate concerns on public safety?

sure looks that way to me. hope they don't screw up what has been so hard fought to achieve. good luck Iowa!
deepwater

[WatchManUSA]

This is the same paranoia that is spread in every State when they pass "must Issue" carry laws.  I recall in Minnesota when the law passed you would have thought a carry permit (MN is is a carry permit not only a concealed carry permit - you can carry as you wish.) gives one a license to kill.

The sky didn't fall and no permit holder has been involved in a non-justified shooting.  Except one guy who shot his car. 

[PegLeg45]

Is it just me, or do some of these guys sound more like people who are incensed that their little fiefdoms were challenged, rather than having legitimate concerns on public safety?

That's pretty much it IMHO.......they're pissed that some of their 'power' has been 'taken away'.

[TAB]

Alot of what he said is true.  Rather you like it or lot does not make it less true.

Carrying a long gun over your shoulder is going to scare some people, thats never going to change, get use to it.

"The first thing that goes with alcohol use is judgment,"

honestly, is there anyone here that disagrees with that statement?

[Sponsor]

[tombogan03884]

NH has no training requirement and is a "Shall issue" state.
Just saw an Item in the free paper this morning that it is also the safest in the nation, for the 3rd straight year.

[JC5123]

Alot of what he said is true.  Rather you like it or lot does not make it less true.

Carrying a long gun over your shoulder is going to scare some people, thats never going to change, get use to it.


honestly, is there anyone here that disagrees with that statement?

Um, I have to disagree!!! I live in a place, where historically, and pretty much up until about 20 years ago (when we started getting the huge influx of libtards from Cali) Drinking, Driving, and Shooting stuff was the state sport. It was rare to open up a pickup and NOT find a gun, a bottle, and a fishing pole. Usually all in plain view on the front seat. All was good as long as you didn't shoot the signs, and you left the gates closed. Hell, what's judgment anyway?

[tombogan03884]

Truth is, America ran on booze till prohibition. from the Rum punch drank by the Founding Fathers to the lunchtime beer of the guy's who built the Empire state building, Hoover dam, and Golden gate bridge.

[TAB]

There is a big diffrence between having a gun in a truck and going into the store with one on your shoulder.  


20 years ago I use to ride my bike about 15 miles to the next county over with a 22 straped to my back.  County and state officals would trade 22 shells for ground squrrel tails.  They were digging into the leaves.  This was in California, right accross the river from "Old town"  and only about mile from the capitol.

How far do you think a 8-10 year old would get now with a 22 straped to his back?  What do you think would happen to say a game warden or a flood control guy if they were cuaght handing out 22 shells?

I did that for years, never got in trouble with the cops, One time I had one take me home after he saw me walking my bike home after dark as I had a flat tire.    

Hell what do you think the chances of a cop taking a kid, his bike ( and rifle of corse) home becuase he had a flat tire are these days?

[TAB]

Truth is, America ran on booze till prohibition. from the Rum punch drank by the Founding Fathers to the lunchtime beer of the guy's who built the Empire state building, Hoover dam, and Golden gate bridge.

As most of you know, I was a general contractor that spealized in 100+ year old homes.

The old saying they don't make them like they use too, Is a very, very good thing trust me.  Yes every one was drunk back them, thats why alot of the work was complete and utter crap.